|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 27, 2012 13:23:47 GMT -7
I started this thread on the old forum. As I said, currently I don't have time for face to face games. Forum member adam posted up a few ideas which I haven't had time to try out yet (sorry adam! : and I know kinshi said he is working up possible rules for this as well. Maybe you could repost your idea, adam? And what are other peoples thoughts on this? Mark
|
|
kinshi
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Posts: 95
|
Post by kinshi on Jun 27, 2012 15:12:50 GMT -7
A play-aid that can be converted for use in STCS are the old "Command Cards" from Star Fleet Battles. These cards can be helpful in determining what a ship might do, they offer commands such as , 'Limited Fire' (1/3 or fewer of facing weapons will be fired), 'Alpha Strike' (at least 2/3 of facing weapons will be fired)
These cards also can be used to set options ahead of time such as 'Fire in Self-Defense' (fire only at targets within 6-7 hexes
These cards have movement options, like 'straight', 'slideslip left or right'
As far as targeting goes for NPCs, the sensor phase determines that, whoever the NPC locks onto is their target. Its up to you however to determine the NPC's lock-on priorities ahead of time.
ADB does not publish the cards anymore that I am aware of but its an easy concept to replicate.
I am also experimenting with converting the SFB "Battle Cards" damage allocation system to STCS. (the Battle Cards in SFB are a lot faster in dishing out damage than using th SFB Damage Allocation chart, thought they might be be adapted to STCS to quicken its damage allocation as well).
|
|
adam
Ensign
Posts: 17
|
Post by adam on Jun 27, 2012 16:14:43 GMT -7
I'm working on a solo system where all robot ships have their 'hit points' clumped in three or four groups (undamaged, a little damage, alotta damage, and totally f'd). For each grouping, the robot ship has a movement point value, a shield value and a set number of weapons armed to fire. Each level of damage will also have a strategy depending on the scenario, things like: maintain a certain range, close in, and retreat.
The robot ship cards can fit easily on an index card which very much resembles the Starmada Nova system. The idea is that you're only really playing your ship and that you're not allocating power for the enemy. THat's why I did away with assigning damage to the enemy. Rather, you do a certain amount of damage and then boom, they're systems aren't as good.
If anyone has any ideas for soloing or robot strategies, I'd love to hear them. I dig this game, but really, there's no one to play against. Still fun, though.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 27, 2012 16:37:09 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by domingojs23 on Dec 25, 2012 7:20:10 GMT -7
Dear Friends, I too would be very interested in further development of Solitaire Rules. One other and obvious direction is using the one-player mode of video games, am seriously looking at the re-boot of Starfleet Command, the "Community Edition" With regard to pen-and-paper rules, there are the "robot rules" of Federation Commander, "SFB Lite" - see www.starfleetgames.com/federation/Commanders%20Circle/documents/ROBOT_RULES_Rev-4.pdfCheers, Gary
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jan 10, 2013 10:19:19 GMT -7
Gary
There's a Rev 6 of those Rules, dated 24/12/08, on the Fed Comm site now. They are a bit specific to Fed Comm in my eyes.
Anyone made any progress on their house rules on this?
Mark
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jan 25, 2013 9:52:04 GMT -7
adam I asked about Solitaire Rules for STSTCS over on the Starship Combat News forum... www.star-ranger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9400...and someone there PM'd me and asked if I could share your original rules based on the Starmada tables for solo rules. Would you have any problem if I shared those with him? Mark
|
|
|
Post by urbanwarrior on Jan 27, 2013 4:36:13 GMT -7
Hi Mark, Adam, Mark that someone who PM,d you would be me. Adam, now that I am here, I can ask you myself if you would be willing to share your solo rules with me. No one in my local club plays STSTCS and I would like to play this game again, even if I have to play it solo. Thank you. Urban. adam I asked about Solitaire Rules for STSTCS over on the Starship Combat News forum... www.star-ranger.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9400...and someone there PM'd me and asked if I could share your original rules based on the Starmada tables for solo rules. Would you have any problem if I shared those with him? Mark
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Mar 27, 2013 7:37:19 GMT -7
Unfortunately haven't heard back from adam yet, urban.
Still about adam?
Or does anyone else have some thoughts about solitaire rules?
Mark
|
|
|
Post by urbanwarrior on Sept 8, 2013 12:38:14 GMT -7
Still no reply from adam? Unfortunately haven't heard back from adam yet, urban. Still about adam? Or does anyone else have some thoughts about solitaire rules? Mark
|
|
adam
Ensign
Posts: 17
|
Post by adam on Oct 4, 2013 10:26:10 GMT -7
So sorry! I have been out of the loop. You see, a while back I picked up this game called X-Wing Miniatures (which has a great web app A.I. for solo gaming. xwing.runbam.com.s3-website-us-east-1.amazonaws.com/xwing_ai_1.5.0b2/index.htmThen I discovered Mage Knight, which when I have the time, it just the coolest solo game. Sadly, I never seemed to have the time (2 kids, school, wife). Then I found The Lord of the Rings Living Card Game and that hit the sweet spot of quick set up, fast play, thoughtful and engaging. It is my go-to solo game. As for Star Trek Combat Simulator, it sort of fell by the way side. THe way I was playing it solo was for each enemy ship there was a card divided into thirds. While the ship was not significantly damaged it behaved a certain way, but once it reached the first third threshold, it put more power into movement and less into weapons or vice versa depending on the faction. Then, when the third threshold of damage was reached it could put all energy into shields and movement, or all into weapons. With each threshold there was a change of tactics. To keep it simple there was no damage allocation with the enemy, it was either a hit or a miss (shields did absorb damage, though). I'm looking for my files now, I'll post what I find.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Oct 5, 2013 15:57:49 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by urbanwarrior on Oct 6, 2013 10:53:37 GMT -7
Thank you, this is great news. And thanks to trynda1701 for the pm regarding this topic. So sorry! I have been out of the loop. ... I'm looking for my files now, I'll post what I find.
|
|
|
Post by urbanwarrior on Dec 15, 2013 14:41:39 GMT -7
Any update? Thank you, this is great news. And thanks to trynda1701 for the pm regarding this topic. So sorry! I have been out of the loop. ... I'm looking for my files now, I'll post what I find.
|
|
|
Post by urbanwarrior on Sept 28, 2014 18:42:34 GMT -7
Almost a whole years has passed and still no further reply from Adam.
Guess he forgot or left the planet.
|
|
adam
Ensign
Posts: 17
|
Post by adam on Jan 21, 2015 20:17:54 GMT -7
I'm a turd. I did fall off the planet and landed into a zombie apocalypse called "Dawn of the Zeds." Great solo game. I've also been stranded on a desert island called "Robinson Crusoe." I can't seem to win that one without the help of Friday AND the dog. I've also had a blast losing my sanity as Great Old Ones rise from the deep and destroy the world in Eldritch Horror. But I have yet to find a good solo space game!!! Don't get me wrong, X-Wing solo is pretty cool, maybe the best solo space fight out there. I'd like to try Astra Titanus, but as you can see, I've picked up quite a few games this year. Star Trek Attack wing has some solo scenarios, but I am resistant to taking the plunge for some reason. I have not made an progress on solo rules for STSCS, sadly. But you know, I'm sitting here looking at my ship data sheets, what if, you just Revenlofted a Klingon.
Like this for a D-7 Class IX:
At start, D-7 Advances and attacks. Has 3 movement points, 10 shield points no matter what facet you hit, will attack with 3 KD-8s with 6 points in each and 1 KP-3 missile.
Once 22 points of damage have been taken, the D-7 will still advance with 2 movement point, 6 shield points on which ever side you hit, and attacks with 2 KD-8s with 7 points of power and one KP-3 missile.
After taking 22 more points of damage, the D-7 advances with 1 movement point, shields at 3 on any facet that is hit, and attacks with two KD-8s at 4 points of power.
After taking another 20 points of damage, the D-7 is destroyed.
All you have to keep track of are the damage points, not allocating them to different systems on the D-7, to keep it easy.
There. That only took a year. :-)
edit: oops, I read the ship data wrong. Had to switch my numbers around.
|
|
adam
Ensign
Posts: 17
|
Post by adam on Jan 21, 2015 20:50:11 GMT -7
OK. After thinking about my last post for 5 minutes, I see how that kind of AI could be pretty dull to deal with. Alright then, how about a few variations on the each power level theme so there is a little unpredictability to it. That shouldn't be too hard. For me, where I need help is in the tactics. How does a Klingon fight? I would think puts nearly all power into weapons. But get in close, or keep a distance? How does a Federation captain think? Do they feel obligated to protect the crew? How do they make best use of their weapons? I have no idea what Roms and Gorns think about? Smashing Kirk with a rock?
I'm serious, though, what are some basic elements to the different factions? With that info, it would be pretty easy to make some tactics cards for some ships.
|
|
adam
Ensign
Posts: 17
|
Post by adam on Jan 22, 2015 16:24:47 GMT -7
Today I made some tactics cards for a D-10 Klingon and ran the Big Bad Wolf scenario. The AI did poorly. I covered part of the tactics card, so I knew how many movement points the D-10 had, but not its actual movement choices until I revealed them each phase. That actually worked, ok, but the numbers I used for shields just wasn't enough and I destroyed the D-10 by turn 5. It was a good learning experience, though, and I think I can find the sweet spot with a little more effort.
|
|
|
Post by urbanwarrior on Jan 24, 2015 10:33:19 GMT -7
Hi, thanks for the reply.
Hope you had fun playing Zombie apocalypse. I have those rules but never played them. Hearing they are for solo play I will give them a try.
About STSCS I like the idea of the different steps in damage. It's easy and not much bookkeeping. It might indeed be a bit dull. Will have to try it sometime.
About the tactics cards, that sounds like a great idea. Please share those if you have a finished set.
If you should make any progress on the solo rules for STSCS in the future, keep us informed.
Thanks again for the ideas.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jan 24, 2015 14:00:49 GMT -7
Good to hear from you again, adam. Looking forward to see what your trials come up with.
Anyone else got thoughts on this?
Mark
|
|
adam
Ensign
Posts: 17
|
Post by adam on Jan 24, 2015 20:21:11 GMT -7
Urbanwarrior, the zombie game is actually called "Dawn of the Zeds." It is a Victory Points Game and is solitaire only. Well, I guess you could play co-op, but basically it is solitaire. Great, thematic, story telling experience. But very hard. I've made a new hand drawn deck of tactics cards for the D-10. Its buffed up and should pose more of a challenge. I'll try it this weekend, but there is still something awkward about the system. Its just that STSCS is suceh a two player game. You have to think plan and be lucky. I feel like making STSTCS solo kind of changes the game. That being said, maybe there is a new game here.
|
|
kinshi
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Posts: 95
|
Post by kinshi on Feb 22, 2015 22:37:56 GMT -7
Speaking of having fallen off the planet..I am back as well and have been thinking a lot about this topic. However I have a different view of AI as it applies to ST:STCS, in that rather than trying to apply some overall rules for random encounters, the best results can be had by setting up a play session in the form of a scenario with pre-defined victory conditions for each side, and then AI rules can then be tailored based on the victory conditions for the scenario. I also use AI from MMORPGs NPCsas a inspriration (that is I treat non-player ships as NPCs, and in order for NPC ships to present a challenge to the player, they also have to be able to do somethings that a player cannot. This is just a taste of what I am thinking of..what I need to do is sit down and write up the AI concepts as they apply to NPCs, and how to plug them into scenarios. I am thinking this way because I am in the planning statges of doing a modern re-write of the ST:STCS for PC, and it requires programming an AI, a proicess I can also use to provide an AI for the tabletop version as well (not to mention that I can prototype and work the kinks out of the AI on the tabletop before writing a line of code) In the end its just like AIs for MMOs where mobs have a set of actions and reactions based on what the players are doing, and based upon the pre-defined goals of a scenario. Example Scenario: Escort Duty A set of NPC frieghters has to make it from one side of the map and off the opposite side. The victory conditions for the defender are based on how many freighters make it off the map. The attacker's victory conditions are based on how many freighters he can take out while still getting away with his ship intact. The freighters would have 2-3 light escorts, like 2 or 3 Genser-class escorts, and the player is coming in with a single D-7 variant cruiser (figure out your own balance based on CE values). The escorts will operate Defensively, in that they will not move more than 3-hexes away from their defensive targets (the freighters) and they will always try to position themselves between the frieghters and the attacker. In this scenario, the defender wins by getting those freigters out, as such the escorts are expendable to a degree. For the attacker, he has to kill frieghters and still get out relaively intact, as such the attacker does not want to get too distracted by the escorts. If the attacker kills the freighters but winds up unable to leave or gets destroyed himself, at best that is a draw. (the Empire does not grow D7s on trees you know) ALso an important concept in this method is reducving NPC ships down to base componets, so that their MCP can be a simple set of values on a 3x5 notecard. (namely the hull points, the points for each of the 6 sheilds, and each weapon type and the firing arcs. HOWEVER, we are going to devate from the norm here and give the AI an advantage by assuming the sheilds are always at max power, and that the weapons are always charged to median power (50% of whatever the max is for energy weapons), and can fire once per turn until destroyed. Sheilds will always be back up each turn unless the shield generator is destroyed. Why? Its much less to manage for the player (you dont want to be bogged down in micromanaging NPC ships) and while this makes the NPC ships tougher to kill, it is compensation for them being stupid as no matter what rules we use, the AI is always going to be dumber than the human players by a huge margin (I hope LOL). As such the player will have to work harder to get sheilds down and do damage, and will take more damage as a result, but its offset by the fact the player is free to use whatever tactics they want, while the NPC has to stick to preset AI rules. We wont be tracking NPC ship power consumption for movement..in fact we will not be bothering with NPC ship power consumption at all. You can also tailor AI effectiveness by using the FASA crewmember rules, like give a ship an exceptional helmsman, or captain or whatever to make it more potent if need be. NPC max ship speeds wpould be defined at the onset of the scenario. Ships operating defensively will stick to preset speedand their defensive targets and will match their speeds. Ships operating aggressively would come in at their max allowed speed until they closed with their target, but would then match speeds with the target once they got into optimal range, and speed only increasing to match the target. I am currently working on an example scenario for this concept (based on the above escort-type mission). Overall the NPC AI is defined in the parameters for the mission type. Potential basic mission types; Escort Destroy Deliver Recon Hunt Retreive Confiscate THis AI model also use what I call "observers" that is triggered events that can happen once a player is with a set range of an object or target, or that happen if a scenarion lastslonger than x # of turns (like on an escort mission, by the 5th turn, the SOS will have been heard and a new defending ship will arrive to help drive off the attacker), or if the attacker gets too close to one of the freighters, all the escorts will immediately turn and attack the interloper. This observers/triggers can also be used to determine when an PC fires and when they do not. As such this model is not so much writing up a canned set of one size fits all solo-play rules, its more of a framework to use for creating and playing solo-play scenarios where you are doing more than simple ship duels. You can also use it to have NPC ships following the combat doctrine of a given race, like Klingons not working so well together, and each acting independantly for glorrty instead of as a unit, or Romulans who try to stay cloaked most of the time waiting for the perfect combo of positioning and range, or Federation who "leave no man behind". The AI/observers can also be used to define group behavior for NPC ships (like squadron behavior, such as a squadron leader and wingmen, wingmen always staying a fixed # of hexes away from the leader, an 1 hex behindm the leader defining the primary target, the wingmen either also firing at the leaders target, or intercepting targets that try to attack the leader. ITs back to that concept of defining the defensive target for a ship at the start of the scenario. In the end the only, full MCPs you manage are for the ships you use as the player, the rest are the simplified, 3x5 notecard version of the NPC ships MCPs that do not require management, just recording of damage taken. This also removes the need to be constantly rolling dice, or drawing cards to see what the NPC ships will do. Their behaviors are already pre-defined by the scenarion setup and their assigned roles. This also has the potential to make managing large fleet battles a lot easier, as in one can break their own fleet up into battle groups led by NPCs, and the ships in thopse groups operating as NPCs making it so one does not have to manage a full sheaf of MCPs for every ship you have in your fleet. Its just that once you assign orders to a battle group, they will operate under those orders (like fly speed 10, in defensive mode, with an assigned set of targets/goals to a specific location) for the duration of the turn, they are committed to that course of action even if the fog of war winds up putting them in a poor position at the end of the turn. There certainly is more to flesh out here but I think you get where I am going with this.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Feb 25, 2015 17:09:51 GMT -7
Interesting reading, kinshi. Looking forward to see what further developments you come up with. I'm also looking forward to see if adam has managed any further trials with his ideas. It would be cool if you both got working versions for people to try out! Mark
|
|
zaarin7
Lieutenant
I'm up for Vassal/Skype gameing.
Posts: 150
|
Post by zaarin7 on Feb 26, 2015 4:10:06 GMT -7
This sound really cool. Something along the World of Tanks/Warplanes/Warships model would work for this game too but that will never happen.
|
|