Post by trynda1701 on Jun 30, 2012 16:03:12 GMT -7
To paraphrase from another franchise...
"Orion Space...a wretched hive of scum and villany!"
Now that could be how some people see the Orion Pirates! But I would like to discuss that.
Back in January 2010 on TheFASAStarTrekUniverseE-group on Yahoo I asked the following questions about Orion Pirates in connection with the ongoing Orion Ship Recognition project. First of all, the questions were indiviadually answered by drock, whose answers I will post in blue below each question.
trynda1701, 21st January 2010, TheFASAStarTrekUniverseE-group
On the subject of the Orion SRM, what are the authors and other peoples thoughts on the following:
In FASA terms, there is the Orion goverment (how ever lose a term that may be!) of the BPC (I haven't access to my Orion RPG books, and can't remember what that stands for!), presumably running the Orion Space Navy.
That and the Orion Book of Common Knowledge/Orion Book of Deep Knowledge and The Triangle will help you flesh that out. BPC stands for Bolchok Planetary Council. They run the navy. But it's usually the corporations and wealthy families that have real political power.
Then there are the Pirates cartels. Which may or may not be the same vessels, just depending on what day of the month it is!
True that! Some Orion Navy ships privateer on the side. Those that get caught are disavowed and declared as going rogue, otherwise the Orions turn a blind eye.
And there is mention a few times in the SRM of the 'canon' Orion Syndicate.
So my questions are these.
What does the 'official' fleet of the OSN actually consist of? Are OSN ships interchangable as pirate vessels? Is the Orion Syndicate an overall term for the Pirate Cartels, or a different thing altogether?
From what I read, they have some common Federation and Klingon models of starships (some bought, others are knockoffs made by the Orions themselves). They also have a good number of Wanderer and Lighting class vessels.
I would love to hear peoples thoughts on this, besides what is shown in the ship descriptions.
I think that the Syndicate IS a seperate entity, but I can't remember enough of the Orion RPG manual "The Book of Deep Knowledge" to tie it together with what FASA invented.
I don't see FASA saying anything about the Orion Syndicate. It's a Next Gen invention, post FASA I believe, so you won't hear about it. But FASA does
mention pirate cartels and crime syndicates in the Rigel system and in the Triangle.
As for the Orion Syndicate itself, the impression I get from it is that it originated in Orion space and it is most likely run by Orions, but is not limited to the Orions. It is a multiplanetary and multispecial organization. More than once have human agents for the Orion Syndicate have appeared in TNG and DS9
Interesting answers from drock, who people will remember from the old forum. He posted some cool write ups on some cool Orion versions of the Klingon ships sold to them in the Klingon SRM.
The next answer/comment came from Bryan Jecko, who has sort of crystalised how I now see the Orions in STSTCS trems. Bryan's answer in shown below, also in blue...
Bryan Jecko, 23d January 2010, TheFASASraeTrekUniverseE-group
I've tried to think of the BPC as a "Government" but usually I just think of it as a bureaucracy. My though is that it, as FASA put it - they pick up garbage, break up fights, run hospitals and ports - but don't have enough power against the major land owners and pirate clans (read more about the pirate cartels below.) They do have power, though. And the Navy is part of the power. The navy would be there to officially chase off pirates (again - see the bit about pirates and pirate raids below.) I kind of think the Navy would hamper the Klingons and Federation who might be CHASING pirates. You know - park their ships in front of a perusing Federation destroyer demanding to know why their chasing someone just after they cross the boarder. A good reason for the pirate cartels - er - I mean shipping companies - yea, that's the ticket - to pay the BPC. And in fact they would also collect tariffs, rescue folks, salvage stuff - the regular "coast guard" kind of stuff. There WOULD be a core of REAL combat officers who would take on a Klingon task force if they didn't pay their bribes - er - I mean entry fee, and suddenly came barreling through the Orion Zone without permission. The Federation - who need Orion trade still, will not shoot first or force a confrontation - they'll just gripe if they can't get around an Orion navy ship and be forced to let the pirate go. The Pirates will pay the BPC a nice (if small) portion in taxes to make sure they WILL block a Federation ship. The Klingons.well - there will probably a little killing along the way - they the ship commanders realize that there is too much to loose (at the moment!) if they escalate things too much. They'll bluster.they'll threaten.they may even shoot. But it will cost them more the NEXT time they want to cross into Orion space.
Now - for pirates!
Let me start with the pirate cartels. I see MOST pirates as being "gentlemen" pirates. I did some calculation a while ago. If you don't catch a ship just as it's leaving or entering a system, they'll detect you about 24 to 36 hours away. (Sensors - as best I can tell - have a 1 to 3 light year range.even at Warp 8 or 9 - that takes a while to cover!) So in deep space - once a freighter detects a pirate - it's a race to see if they can get near help before the pirates get into weapon range. Even if you aren't going to get within range of a patrol, you'll still probably run. You'd rather have the good guys show up 5 minutes late than 4 hours late. So the chase is on. (I remember seeing a show on the old "age of sail." They'd chase each other for hours before someone lost the wind for just a bit too long. That must have been nerve wracking!)
Once said pirate was in range.he might fire a shot or two to get your attention.but his hold is a HELL of a lot smaller than yours! And you're insured! The pirate may not even come aboard.just pull up along side and beam over his 30 of 40 SCU. Not very glamorous, but practical! By then - the "cavalry" is just minutes away - blustering to the pirates, your crew is counting weather they just lost 5,000 MCR or 8,000 MCR worth of stuff (as opposed to the 500,000 MCR that is STILL in the hold!) and the pirates are hoping their engines will hold out while they try and get away. Because your ship is in good condition - the good guys will have to escort you to within range of your destination (of the next set of good guys who can come to your aid if ANOTHER pirate shows up.) Everyone is fairly happy - it's the cost of doing business. That doesn't mean there won't be kidnappings, or extortion, or any of that kind of thing.just not a whole lot of it. Just not practical!
It the occasional "bad guy" who throws a monkey wrench into things.and these are the guys who the Orion Navy will go after with a vengeance! They're bad for business, their bad for trade, they draw WAY too much attention and to put is simple - they might just kill your cousin! HOW DARE THEY! Bounty hunters, pirate cartels and the official Orion navy will ALL be gunning for these guys - and they'll take Federation, Klingon, Nausican, Massarite - even Vulcan help in destroying these particular bands pirates. Nobody likes a boat-rocker!
The pirate cartels are usually 2 or 3 or even 4 families who share bases and ports, manpower, repair facilities, trade contacts and shipping routes. As long as everyone gets a cut - everyone gets rich. Probably some in-fighting.skimming off the top.
They Syndicate, on the other hand.it a whole lot bigger. More like 50 to 100 families. LOT more secret bases.lot more contacts.much farther reach. In fact, the syndicate will probably have trade agreements DEEP within the Federation, Klingon Empire, out to the Tholians even. They probably have a much better way to fence things, transport things and "clean" things when needed. And, where as a smaller cartel will usually next 50-60% profit for the various familys, being a member of the Syndicate will only net you 10%. BUT! You'll have a LOT more places to hide and a much faster way to unload your "ill-gotten' gain."
To be totally honest - I really think FASA originally saw that Orions more as what the Ferengin became in the later years of TNG. Not quite as comical.but that underhanded sneaky kind of character.
This is a detailed and informative answer, which as I've said is now how I see the Orions in FASA terms. You now reasons which allow you to have Orion scenarios which are cartel vs cartel, or Navy vs (name a Empire) or even Navy vs cartel!
I would love to hear other peoples thoughts on this. Do you play the Orions in a similar fashion, or in another way?
Mark
"Orion Space...a wretched hive of scum and villany!"
Now that could be how some people see the Orion Pirates! But I would like to discuss that.
Back in January 2010 on TheFASAStarTrekUniverseE-group on Yahoo I asked the following questions about Orion Pirates in connection with the ongoing Orion Ship Recognition project. First of all, the questions were indiviadually answered by drock, whose answers I will post in blue below each question.
trynda1701, 21st January 2010, TheFASAStarTrekUniverseE-group
On the subject of the Orion SRM, what are the authors and other peoples thoughts on the following:
In FASA terms, there is the Orion goverment (how ever lose a term that may be!) of the BPC (I haven't access to my Orion RPG books, and can't remember what that stands for!), presumably running the Orion Space Navy.
That and the Orion Book of Common Knowledge/Orion Book of Deep Knowledge and The Triangle will help you flesh that out. BPC stands for Bolchok Planetary Council. They run the navy. But it's usually the corporations and wealthy families that have real political power.
Then there are the Pirates cartels. Which may or may not be the same vessels, just depending on what day of the month it is!
True that! Some Orion Navy ships privateer on the side. Those that get caught are disavowed and declared as going rogue, otherwise the Orions turn a blind eye.
And there is mention a few times in the SRM of the 'canon' Orion Syndicate.
So my questions are these.
What does the 'official' fleet of the OSN actually consist of? Are OSN ships interchangable as pirate vessels? Is the Orion Syndicate an overall term for the Pirate Cartels, or a different thing altogether?
From what I read, they have some common Federation and Klingon models of starships (some bought, others are knockoffs made by the Orions themselves). They also have a good number of Wanderer and Lighting class vessels.
I would love to hear peoples thoughts on this, besides what is shown in the ship descriptions.
I think that the Syndicate IS a seperate entity, but I can't remember enough of the Orion RPG manual "The Book of Deep Knowledge" to tie it together with what FASA invented.
I don't see FASA saying anything about the Orion Syndicate. It's a Next Gen invention, post FASA I believe, so you won't hear about it. But FASA does
mention pirate cartels and crime syndicates in the Rigel system and in the Triangle.
As for the Orion Syndicate itself, the impression I get from it is that it originated in Orion space and it is most likely run by Orions, but is not limited to the Orions. It is a multiplanetary and multispecial organization. More than once have human agents for the Orion Syndicate have appeared in TNG and DS9
Interesting answers from drock, who people will remember from the old forum. He posted some cool write ups on some cool Orion versions of the Klingon ships sold to them in the Klingon SRM.
The next answer/comment came from Bryan Jecko, who has sort of crystalised how I now see the Orions in STSTCS trems. Bryan's answer in shown below, also in blue...
Bryan Jecko, 23d January 2010, TheFASASraeTrekUniverseE-group
I've tried to think of the BPC as a "Government" but usually I just think of it as a bureaucracy. My though is that it, as FASA put it - they pick up garbage, break up fights, run hospitals and ports - but don't have enough power against the major land owners and pirate clans (read more about the pirate cartels below.) They do have power, though. And the Navy is part of the power. The navy would be there to officially chase off pirates (again - see the bit about pirates and pirate raids below.) I kind of think the Navy would hamper the Klingons and Federation who might be CHASING pirates. You know - park their ships in front of a perusing Federation destroyer demanding to know why their chasing someone just after they cross the boarder. A good reason for the pirate cartels - er - I mean shipping companies - yea, that's the ticket - to pay the BPC. And in fact they would also collect tariffs, rescue folks, salvage stuff - the regular "coast guard" kind of stuff. There WOULD be a core of REAL combat officers who would take on a Klingon task force if they didn't pay their bribes - er - I mean entry fee, and suddenly came barreling through the Orion Zone without permission. The Federation - who need Orion trade still, will not shoot first or force a confrontation - they'll just gripe if they can't get around an Orion navy ship and be forced to let the pirate go. The Pirates will pay the BPC a nice (if small) portion in taxes to make sure they WILL block a Federation ship. The Klingons.well - there will probably a little killing along the way - they the ship commanders realize that there is too much to loose (at the moment!) if they escalate things too much. They'll bluster.they'll threaten.they may even shoot. But it will cost them more the NEXT time they want to cross into Orion space.
Now - for pirates!
Let me start with the pirate cartels. I see MOST pirates as being "gentlemen" pirates. I did some calculation a while ago. If you don't catch a ship just as it's leaving or entering a system, they'll detect you about 24 to 36 hours away. (Sensors - as best I can tell - have a 1 to 3 light year range.even at Warp 8 or 9 - that takes a while to cover!) So in deep space - once a freighter detects a pirate - it's a race to see if they can get near help before the pirates get into weapon range. Even if you aren't going to get within range of a patrol, you'll still probably run. You'd rather have the good guys show up 5 minutes late than 4 hours late. So the chase is on. (I remember seeing a show on the old "age of sail." They'd chase each other for hours before someone lost the wind for just a bit too long. That must have been nerve wracking!)
Once said pirate was in range.he might fire a shot or two to get your attention.but his hold is a HELL of a lot smaller than yours! And you're insured! The pirate may not even come aboard.just pull up along side and beam over his 30 of 40 SCU. Not very glamorous, but practical! By then - the "cavalry" is just minutes away - blustering to the pirates, your crew is counting weather they just lost 5,000 MCR or 8,000 MCR worth of stuff (as opposed to the 500,000 MCR that is STILL in the hold!) and the pirates are hoping their engines will hold out while they try and get away. Because your ship is in good condition - the good guys will have to escort you to within range of your destination (of the next set of good guys who can come to your aid if ANOTHER pirate shows up.) Everyone is fairly happy - it's the cost of doing business. That doesn't mean there won't be kidnappings, or extortion, or any of that kind of thing.just not a whole lot of it. Just not practical!
It the occasional "bad guy" who throws a monkey wrench into things.and these are the guys who the Orion Navy will go after with a vengeance! They're bad for business, their bad for trade, they draw WAY too much attention and to put is simple - they might just kill your cousin! HOW DARE THEY! Bounty hunters, pirate cartels and the official Orion navy will ALL be gunning for these guys - and they'll take Federation, Klingon, Nausican, Massarite - even Vulcan help in destroying these particular bands pirates. Nobody likes a boat-rocker!
The pirate cartels are usually 2 or 3 or even 4 families who share bases and ports, manpower, repair facilities, trade contacts and shipping routes. As long as everyone gets a cut - everyone gets rich. Probably some in-fighting.skimming off the top.
They Syndicate, on the other hand.it a whole lot bigger. More like 50 to 100 families. LOT more secret bases.lot more contacts.much farther reach. In fact, the syndicate will probably have trade agreements DEEP within the Federation, Klingon Empire, out to the Tholians even. They probably have a much better way to fence things, transport things and "clean" things when needed. And, where as a smaller cartel will usually next 50-60% profit for the various familys, being a member of the Syndicate will only net you 10%. BUT! You'll have a LOT more places to hide and a much faster way to unload your "ill-gotten' gain."
To be totally honest - I really think FASA originally saw that Orions more as what the Ferengin became in the later years of TNG. Not quite as comical.but that underhanded sneaky kind of character.
This is a detailed and informative answer, which as I've said is now how I see the Orions in FASA terms. You now reasons which allow you to have Orion scenarios which are cartel vs cartel, or Navy vs (name a Empire) or even Navy vs cartel!
I would love to hear other peoples thoughts on this. Do you play the Orions in a similar fashion, or in another way?
Mark