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Post by rabid on Jul 24, 2017 13:07:24 GMT -7
lol this is so much better than Wikipedia. I think I got that notion from war thunder. John Thach has his own variant plane.
Don't agree with the interpretation of kamikaze pilots. The Japanese felt that they could defeat the US in a single large, decisive battle as they had with the Russians in the Russo-Japanese war from 1904 to 1905. On December 7th (really) they defeated the Russian Navy in one big battle. The Japanese Bushido code was bastardized and drummed into the heads of Japanese school kids so they would believe that dying for Japan was their duty. Due to the great dishonor involved in failure, the Japanese Admirals thought they had a real fleet up to the end of the war, when they had something like four small carriers (with no planes or trained pilots) and a few cruisers and destroyers.
The Kamikaze was just a morale booster for the Japanese people, but it was also pretty effective. It was born from the twisted Bushido code, and some pilots who knew they were not going to make it back home chose to ram their planes into a target in a quest for an honorable and glorious death. It was not formally adopted by the IJN until it was pretty clear Japan was done for. The worst part is that it worked! For the loss of one pilot and plane, they could sink a ship. Compare that to the number of pilots lost per shit sunk by the US at Midway. It's an early guided missile more effective than anything the Germans fielded at the time. There is a certain cruel logic to the Kamikaze... good thing they did not think of it sooner. It was also not really a "Volunteer" thing. You had a coupe of options, Volunteer or be branded a coward and humiliate yourself and your family.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 24, 2017 15:14:26 GMT -7
Out of all the pre WW2 planes that i have in my sim collection, this is probably one of my favorite birds to fly. The Grumman F3F-3 "Barrel" is light on the stick, agile, and can turn a snap role like you wouldn't believe. It was an awesome little airplane. It was probably one of the best biplane fighters ever built. I love landing this bird on a carrier...
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zaarin7
Lieutenant
I'm up for Vassal/Skype gameing.
Posts: 150
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Post by zaarin7 on Jul 24, 2017 16:42:21 GMT -7
Cowboy the board is not letting you F3F pics show up.
The biggest problem with the F2A was not the aircraft but the company according to what I've read. They were located in Brooklyn IIRC and they designed the airplane to have a one piece wing. This lead to huge problems in manufacturing the aircraft and in repair after battle damage. Two things were to the advantage of the Finnish F2A's, one they were the older model without armor or self sealing fuel tanks and two the quality of the opposistion. The USN added those in the latter models and performance just went out the window as weight went up.
The glide ability of the Tri-Pacer was mentioned above. Got an example of that once in my dad's aircraft. We took off from the Smith Mountain Lake Airport. As we climbed out the engine started to run rough and was cutting out. He managed to go around and land. Later investigation found a rag had gotten into the tank. Fortunately it had settled over the fuel pipe inlet flat instead of rolled up. So gas was getting through but like a strainer.
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Post by starcruiser on Jul 24, 2017 17:06:10 GMT -7
lol this is so much better than Wikipedia. I think I got that notion from war thunder. John Thach has his own variant plane. Don't agree with the interpretation of kamikaze pilots. The Japanese felt that they could defeat the US in a single large, decisive battle as they had with the Russians in the Russo-Japanese war from 1904 to 1905. On December 7th (really) they defeated the Russian Navy in one big battle. The Japanese Bushido code was bastardized and drummed into the heads of Japanese school kids so they would believe that dying for Japan was their duty. Due to the great dishonor involved in failure, the Japanese Admirals thought they had a real fleet up to the end of the war, when they had something like four small carriers (with no planes or trained pilots) and a few cruisers and destroyers. The Kamikaze was just a morale booster for the Japanese people, but it was also pretty effective. It was born from the twisted Bushido code, and some pilots who knew they were not going to make it back home chose to ram their planes into a target in a quest for an honorable and glorious death. It was not formally adopted by the IJN until it was pretty clear Japan was done for. The worst part is that it worked! For the loss of one pilot and plane, they could sink a ship. Compare that to the number of pilots lost per shit sunk by the US at Midway. It's an early guided missile more effective than anything the Germans fielded at the time. There is a certain cruel logic to the Kamikaze... good thing they did not think of it sooner. It was also not really a "Volunteer" thing. You had a coupe of options, Volunteer or be branded a coward and humiliate yourself and your family. Remember that the Japanese Imperial Navy learned their business from the British and from Alfred Thayer Mahan... Oddly, the Japanese Imperial Army learned theirs from the Prussians - and then screwed it all up with the "altered" code of Bushido. The Battle of Tsushima (1905) was an incredible victory for the IJN and a total disaster for Imperial Russia. Things started coming apart in Tsarist Russia shortly after that incredible defeat. They went from one of the largest navies in the world to a second or third rate naval power overnight. Yes, the Kamikaze was meant as a morale booster but, they did do a lot of damage to carriers and escorts alike. That's one of the reasons why the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan. The military planners were looking at estimated casualties that would make nearly anyone cringe. A fair chunk of those were expected to come from Ohka flying bombs along with regular suicide attacks.
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Post by rabid on Jul 24, 2017 17:08:48 GMT -7
Agreed. I got to see one of the suicide submarines in Oahu. A chilling contemplation to be sure.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 24, 2017 20:25:42 GMT -7
lol this is so much better than Wikipedia. I think I got that notion from war thunder. John Thach has his own variant plane. Don't agree with the interpretation of kamikaze pilots. The Japanese felt that they could defeat the US in a single large, decisive battle as they had with the Russians in the Russo-Japanese war from 1904 to 1905. On December 7th (really) they defeated the Russian Navy in one big battle. The Japanese Bushido code was bastardized and drummed into the heads of Japanese school kids so they would believe that dying for Japan was their duty. Due to the great dishonor involved in failure, the Japanese Admirals thought they had a real fleet up to the end of the war, when they had something like four small carriers (with no planes or trained pilots) and a few cruisers and destroyers. The Kamikaze was just a morale booster for the Japanese people, but it was also pretty effective. It was born from the twisted Bushido code, and some pilots who knew they were not going to make it back home chose to ram their planes into a target in a quest for an honorable and glorious death. It was not formally adopted by the IJN until it was pretty clear Japan was done for. The worst part is that it worked! For the loss of one pilot and plane, they could sink a ship. Compare that to the number of pilots lost per shit sunk by the US at Midway. It's an early guided missile more effective than anything the Germans fielded at the time. There is a certain cruel logic to the Kamikaze... good thing they did not think of it sooner. It was also not really a "Volunteer" thing. You had a coupe of options, Volunteer or be branded a coward and humiliate yourself and your family. Remember that the Japanese Imperial Navy learned their business from the British and from Alfred Thayer Mahan... Oddly, the Japanese Imperial Army learned theirs from the Prussians - and then screwed it all up with the "altered" code of Bushido. The Battle of Tsushima (1905) was an incredible victory for the IJN and a total disaster for Imperial Russia. Things started coming apart in Tsarist Russia shortly after that incredible defeat. They went from one of the largest navies in the world to a second or third rate naval power overnight. Yes, the Kamikaze was meant as a morale booster but, they did do a lot of damage to carriers and escorts alike. That's one of the reasons why the atomic bombs were dropped on Japan. The military planners were looking at estimated casualties that would make nearly anyone cringe. A fair chunk of those were expected to come from Ohka flying bombs along with regular suicide attacks. Japan had taken suicide to war to a know high. This included suicide torpedoes, suicide pilots, suicide boats, and even to the extent of arming women with spears and teaching them to charge US machine guns and even planning to use children with satchel charges to hit tanks. It was a plan to bleed the Americans and her allies into a negotiated peace...once they knew they couldn't win...Operation Downfall would have been a very bloody mess
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 24, 2017 20:32:07 GMT -7
As the US entered the 1930's, her carrier forces were undergoing a change. Lexington and Saratoga had shown that the carrier was a very workable offensive force, so the Navy started to seek new airplanes and one of the first that introduced advancements to the fleet was the Boeing F4B fighter. This fighter introduced many safety features like radio transceivers in every aircraft that also led to the use of radio navigation and so on. the F4B also introduced the veritable pitch propeller to naval aviation. This Boeing fighter set the standard for USN aircraft design in the 1930's. This is a Boeing F4B-4 as it would have appeared operating off the Saratoga. (I wish i had a better visual model for the F4B-4, but she really is a fun airplane to fly, and i can see how she would have been a great bird to fly on and off those carriers during those early fleet exercises that actually proved the Panama Canal and Pearl Harbor were vulnerable to carrier attack as early as 1933)
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 25, 2017 0:00:09 GMT -7
The IJN's hot rod of a fighter, and yes that is a good analogy of this airplane! The A6M2 fighters that fought at the battle of Midway were fast and nimble fighters, but that really came at a major cost in the design....They were also fragile! Like a hot rod they had a lack of everything that an American fighter would have. They had no armor plate around the pilot; the airframe was built lite; and they had no self-sealing fuel tanks. This lightness of the bird meant that it had trouble fighting its own engine torque, which meant it had trouble making a left turn in combat trim. its airframe was shot up easily and it was easy to kill the pilot with shots into the frame. and the lack of self-sealing fuel tanks meant that gas vapor would build up in the tanks, and this would lead to it becoming a fireball if it was hit in the wings... This actually made the plane...well, it could be a death trap.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 25, 2017 2:36:14 GMT -7
It is time to be fair to the US Army. I have always liked the Curtiss P-36 Hawk. This bird is agile, and fast for its day. This thing can actually turn inside a Zeke and it is almost a fair match to the Oscar... It proved a capable fighter over France. It also proved capable over India. This is a Army Air Corps P-36A
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Post by starcruiser on Jul 25, 2017 7:40:01 GMT -7
^ Only real flaw - light armament. 2x machine guns synced through the propellor.
Otherwise, pretty and nice handling bird.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 25, 2017 8:11:54 GMT -7
^ Only real flaw - light armament. 2x machine guns synced through the propellor. Otherwise, pretty and nice handling bird. When the Curtiss P-36A entered US service one of those machine guns were .50 cal, compared to most planes in foreign service that carried two rifle caliber machine guns. The other was a .30 cal, but that could be replaced by another .50...and the bird also provision for four more .30 cal in the wings....
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Post by starcruiser on Jul 25, 2017 17:59:37 GMT -7
And carrying 6x 50's would do a number on anything unfortunate to be in front of it!
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 25, 2017 19:36:51 GMT -7
The problem is that weight of those guns would also throw the combat ability of the bird off balance...its a trade off....
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 14:29:07 GMT -7
I like the P-36 better with the Allison V-1710 I confess that the sound of a radial engine will make me drop what I am doing and run outside to see what's going overhead. I was once rewarded with a B-17 going over the house.
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Post by starcruiser on Jul 26, 2017 17:04:59 GMT -7
Lone Star Flight Museum in Galveston (closing and moving to Ellington Field) - about 5 or so years ago...
Toured the museum (and loved it, as usual) and wondered off with a friend and found the flight line open. They had their B-17 and a P-47 both prepping for take off - heading to an airshow somewhere up north. The only other aircraft engine that really makes my day is the Merlin (Rolls or Packard). Hearing 5x big radials fire up and roar to life, and then watch them roll out and taxi - and suddenly - vroom - their up...
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zaarin7
Lieutenant
I'm up for Vassal/Skype gameing.
Posts: 150
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Post by zaarin7 on Jul 26, 2017 17:32:39 GMT -7
Loudest engine noise I ever heard was a B-52 on final approach one time. You not only heard it you felt it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2017 18:06:57 GMT -7
F-4 Phantom on take-off. My first night in basic training they put us in an old barracks at the end of the runway. Those damned things rattled everything!!!
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Post by rabid on Jul 26, 2017 18:27:23 GMT -7
anyone who plays war thunder PM me and we can take our love of vintage planes into virtual warfare
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 26, 2017 18:29:18 GMT -7
On June 4, 1942, even the army was in the show at Midway. The army had sent 15 B-17E Flying Fortress bombers to the island, and more were preparing to leave Hawaii when the Japanese hit Midway. The ones scheduled from Hawaii also included two B-17D that had been left at Hickam Field as "hacks" and they were being pressed into combat service as part of the maximum effort. The Army also had seven B-26A Marauder bombers equipped to carry torpedoes.
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Post by rabid on Jul 26, 2017 19:01:01 GMT -7
keep 'em coming cowboy, I like the experienced perspective on these planes.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 26, 2017 23:30:57 GMT -7
For comparison here is the Boeing B-17D Flying Fortress. This was actually the fastest version of the Fortress. It cruised about 20 mph then the later models...The B-17D took in the lessons learned by the British experience with the B-17C. These lessons included adding turbochargers to each engine...and improvements in fuel system and better armor for the crew..
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Post by edgeworthy on Jul 27, 2017 4:07:40 GMT -7
To be fair nothing quite sounds like a Rolls-Royce Merlin!
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 27, 2017 4:29:39 GMT -7
To be fair nothing quite sounds like a Rolls-Royce Merlin! Packard V-1690 of the Mustang..lol...i know close to same engine, but i have always preferred that deeper sound that the Allison V-1710 gave...but personally the engine i love hearing is the Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 27, 2017 4:35:40 GMT -7
looking over the pictures here, I think the one that strikes my eyes the most is that B-17D, is just looks so much better then the B-17E
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Post by cowboy40 on Jul 27, 2017 5:20:28 GMT -7
In US Service the Hawk 75 would be upgraded to the P-36C. The modifications would include more powerful version of the engine, increase in armament by addition of two more .30 cal Browning machine guns in the wings (nose armament was still one .50 and one .30 cal), improved fuel system and so on...but all this started to mess up the combat balance that the Hawk was gaining fame for...It would eventually lead to the Hawk 81 with the Allison engines...
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