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Post by rabid on Dec 22, 2017 5:55:34 GMT -7
I'm not looking forward to watching it. Feel free to spoiler it anyway..
The sequel trilogy is superfluous based on what I have seen, it's retreading the old stories and seems to be going out of it's way to invert them...
Luke had a triumphal arc, that should have just been the end of the story. Now all we know is despite using his knowledge to overcome the worst dark side Sith ever, he somehow lost to kylo frapping ten? Dissapointing. Just makes me look back on the originals now thinking that Luke isn't a bad ass anymore, just an incompetent dope who didn't learn anything.
Han and Leia, maybe they didn't have the chops for happily ever after but did we really need to see just how bad and Jedi Jerry Springer the whole affair turned out? More likely she would have had anyone BUT Han raise his illegitimate offspring (maybe a more reasonable, wealthy, respectable politician instead?)
No one had a happy ending or enjoyed any kind of peace after return of the Jedi. I have to go see it this weekend with family but man, I'm done with Star Wars at this point.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2018 12:53:48 GMT -7
It was "okay". Also really long. It had weird pacing. The bombers were just stupid, some parts of it were just stupid. But it was at least as good as Force Awakens.
It's still J.J. Abrams...
I found Rogue One much better.
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Post by starcruiser on Jan 6, 2018 22:16:08 GMT -7
Yep - just finally got around to watching it today... Not a well paced film, definitely needed a couple of rewrites and yep - Mark Hamill has every reason to be a bit pissed.
At this point, of the three Disney Star Wars films, only Rogue One is a good solid romp. J.J. Abrams had nothing to do with that one... I wonder if that has something to do with it, hmmm...?
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Post by rabid on Jan 6, 2018 22:37:25 GMT -7
He's playing paint by the numbers...
It just doesn't make any sense. I still haven't seen it and I dont' think I will. The reason why is about as silly (and important) as why I gave up comics.
For comics, they took Mary Marvel (Shazam's kid sister, who's alter ego is a 13 year old girl) and made her the concubine of Darkseid. There are two things wrong with that, unless concubine doesn't mean...concubine. 1. The evil lord of apokolips is searching for something called the "anti-life" equation, which will cause all life in the universe to cease, calming the waters into the stillness of the grave. This is a guy who wants to get laid every now and then? OMG learn the source material. 2, probably more important...is she is 13!! After I saw that they couldn't write INNOCENT characters I walked out of the comic shop and haven't been back since. I used to spend nearly 100$ a month on the hobby.
How does this relate to star wars?
It's luke. The last place we saw him was alone, obviously didn't learn SHIT from the whole prequel and his own trilogy. Anakin went bad in the crappy series because he couldn't fall in love. Yes it was stupid but the point of the prequel trilogies is that the jedi code was broken. I've seen enough spoilers to know they destroy the Jedi manuals but Geez...
Luke liked WOMEN. He had a healthy interest...perhaps unfortunate in retrospect, but he had a healthy interest in women. This is not a guy who would end up a childless weirdo on some island in the middle of nowhere. Unless maybe he was so shocked to learn he was jonesing for his sister.
That right there proves the whole series is absolute crap. No wonder Mark Hamil is mad. Doesn't anyone in the star wars universe have an understandable human impulse? HOw does someone like luke end up taking the same vow of celibacy that ruined his father?
Nah it just ain't right. If I ever see this movie it's because I'm really...really bored.
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Post by starcruiser on Jan 7, 2018 8:27:03 GMT -7
Yep - the old "expanded universe" did ten times better at world building than JJ and Disney have so far (or George Lucas, for that matter)...
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Post by rabid on Jan 11, 2018 12:13:07 GMT -7
Yeah, I've been ok without watching it for 4 weeks now...the weird thing is I'm ok with that and I'm not even curious about it in the least.
Am I just getting old? I feel the same way about STD. But then everyone hates STD.
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Post by starcruiser on Jan 11, 2018 16:32:01 GMT -7
I think us "old fogies" just expect too much from the geniuses in charge in modern Hollywood.
We expect:
A) A somewhat thought out story without plot holes the size of Death Stars. B) Characters that aren't just cardboard cut outs. C) Cinematography that isn't blocked out by LensFlare (TM) and blurred by ShakyCam (TM). D) Music that actually helps drive the story, rather than just as an afterthought...
Etc...etc...etc...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2018 15:55:26 GMT -7
okay... It's been out long enough for people to have seen it. If you have not seen it... stop reading right about...
here.
The bombers sucked! I was expecting to see Y-wings, instead I got FAT B-wings that moved at about 20 mph... and used gravity bombs? Against a ship with NO GUNS, they were all destroyed... what were these crap-slabs designed to attack? I home Northrop aircraft got some royalties for the huge command ship (which was actually rather silly). Laura Dern's character... Middle aged woman with a bad purple die job... I could SMELL the cats on her and felt relieved when her character died. Leia looked like the wicked with when she force-flew through space. All those AT-AT's firing at Luke, and no crater? Really? The side quest by Fin and Rose seemed like a complete waste of time, and I found myself not caring at all if they succeeded. LOVE Benicio Del Torro, but kick his ass out of Star Wars. In the first JJ-Wars we had a BIG deathstar (just like the 1st Star Wars). 2nd JJ-Wars had a gigantic command ship (just like the 2nd Lucas-Wars). So... going out on a limb here... I expect to see another super-sized Death Star in the 3rd JJ-wars.
Very glad to see Yoda was a puppet again.
Looking forward to the Han Solo movie.
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Post by rabid on Jan 15, 2018 8:46:40 GMT -7
lol and nothing you said motivated me to go see it. Maybe I have some Jim bean around here...
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Post by starcruiser on Jan 15, 2018 18:09:55 GMT -7
lol and nothing you said motivated me to go see it. Maybe I have some Jim bean around here... Well - the scene with Yoda and Luke was kinda cool - otherwise...meh...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2018 15:06:49 GMT -7
Hold out for NetFlix
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Post by rabid on Apr 21, 2018 20:41:22 GMT -7
LMAO GOD Damn @ironnerd you were right.
<rant>
Saw it. Horrible. Drek. Despicable. Loathsome and degenerate. Every criticism I had of this movie's premise even before watching it was well informed. They wanted to "update" a timeless story. Idiots.
She hands him a lightsaber and he tosses it aside, literally signaling his impotence and degeneracy to go suck green boobie-milk from a weird alien sea cow. He cut off his telekinetic bond with even his sister...he actually tried to kill his OWN NEPHEW?
LUKE SKYWALKER IS THE ONE FUCKING GUY IN THE WHOLE GOD DAMN UNIVERSE WHO KNOWS HOW TO REHABILLITATE A SITH LORD!!
He rehabilitated a child sorry *youngling* killing monstrosity who was manipulated into evil by a much smarter person. That is Darth Vader who is STILL more threatening and fierce in his cybernetic depends wearing, armless, suffocating DOTAGE than kylo ren is in his prime.
SO this guy, who saw the good in everyone and had a healthy, normal interest in women...doesn't save the universe or salvage his nephew.
No, he retreats to an island to suckle weirdo alien sea cows? SO He refrained from killing his DAD without going into freakish green boobie milk drinking squalor but then he freaks because he almost killed his nephew? FUCK YOU RYAN JOHNSON WHAT CHANGED? Sounds like Luke could have worn him down just like his psychotic dad but NO. OMG NEPHEW ISSUES.
I get it they were trying to make him eccentric like yoda. THis is the most massive fail I've ever seen. They didn't know SHIT about the original stories or what made them good. It was paint by the numbers, but they had the strawberry shortcake palette for a Rembrandt.
And rey is the most boringly successful and erudite person ever. Fuck her I hope she mistakes her light saber for her personal assistant one lonely night.
</rant>
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Post by Aaron C. on Apr 23, 2018 11:01:01 GMT -7
LMFAO Green boobie milk. I feel bad for Mark Hamill.
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Post by Gorn on Apr 23, 2018 17:58:17 GMT -7
tLJ is just a steaming pile of crap. There's really nothing in it that excited me. There's alot in it that made NO SENSE WHATSOEVER. There's alot in it that is just frikkin stupid. The movie is nothing but a string of "ah! gotcha!" moments. If we ever had a chance to get Star Trek back, this is it. Too bad they're still pulling JJDrek on Discrapery. It isn't nearly as bad, however, as this franchise-killer was.
Done with Star Wars.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2018 7:56:14 GMT -7
OKAY... Gorn @ironnerd rabid starcruiser We've all agreed on something... I did not see that one coming.
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Post by starcruiser on Apr 24, 2018 18:42:38 GMT -7
Hey, crap is crap...
Too bad those in charge of Star Trek and Star Wars can't see that.
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Post by rabid on Apr 25, 2018 11:41:14 GMT -7
Remember their goal isn't entertainment but education/indoctrination. Everytime I hear a director/movie studio crowing about "diversity" I get a sick feeling in my stomach. It's actually the worst kind of racism.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2018 12:34:03 GMT -7
Yeah... the Director's introduction to "A Wrinkle in Time" tipped me off that it was gonna suck... It sucked... They forgot to tell a story.
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Post by rabid on Apr 25, 2018 13:23:47 GMT -7
I think they forget how the imagination works. If a character is well written, it doesn't matter what race they are. My nephew wants to be black panther but he can't. Because diversity means black panther HAS to be in the movies, but if a white kid wants to be black panther it's some kind of black face? WTF.
This is what I mean about diversity being racist. It accomplishes the opposite of inclusion, it's divisive.
Make good characters and the superficial traits don't matter.
I thought the same thing watching Luke flounder around, suddenly impotent. Sitcom dad syndrome almost. Meanwhile Rey is effortlessly competent and a flawless human being. Why would I care what she does then? (I don't.) No one likes rey, she is a cypher, not a character. Because feminism I guess.
Just be careful, if you think what I'm saying makes sense you will be called alt-right or worse.
So...Let's change it up a bit: How could you make this movie NOT be the most horrible thing ever?
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Post by starcruiser on Apr 25, 2018 16:23:24 GMT -7
Maybe - they should sit around the table and think about an actual story?
Instead of trying to come up with a bunch of ridiculous ideas on how to be "inclusive"?
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Post by rabid on May 4, 2018 21:38:10 GMT -7
Been batting this one around with a friend...
He says (posted w permission):
His first exposure to star wars was Knights of the Old Republic 2.
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Post by Gorn on May 5, 2018 19:55:07 GMT -7
Luke was portrayed far better in Dark Forces Jedi Outcast, where he tells Kyle Katarn: "Sometimes even a small hope is enough to defeat the Dark Side..."
A frikkin 15 yr old machinema cutscene is far superior to the utter shit Dizzy is putting out. I'll retire to bedlam.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2018 4:12:38 GMT -7
Luke was portrayed far better in Dark Forces Jedi Outcast, where he tells Kyle Katarn: "Sometimes even a small hope is enough to defeat the Dark Side..." A frikkin 15 yr old machinema cutscene is far superior to the utter shit Dizzy is putting out. I'll retire to bedlam. Well said, Gorn.
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Post by rabid on May 11, 2018 10:42:08 GMT -7
WHat do you guys think of the moral relativism that creeped into star wars?
After talking with a few fans I begin to think it was a good story that got ruined by over thinking it.
If you take the prequel movies, the argument could be made that there was no good in Darth Vader, and he killed the emperor because he was a sith and would have to overthrow him eventually. Basically it was his plan all along.
I don't buy that but a lot of kids brought up on the new movies and TLJ/Abrams stuff promote that theory. Problem Vader probably knew he was going to die.
Also if there's moral relativism between the Jedi and the Sith, as I've said a prequel Jedi isn't "Good" really, but Luke had aspirations as well as did Yoda. Both of them seemed above it all and pursuing a higher morality but the prequels and TLJ kind of ruin it.
It's like the moral good of Boromir in the Lord of the Rings (books). He was interested in the good, but only the Good for Gondor, not the higher good of right actions/morality. If you look at the Prequel Jedi in this light, suddenly they make more sense.
But then TLJ Comes along and Luke AND yoda are suddenly interested in the good of the Jedi, not the overarching moral good. Kind of like they were seeking "Just us" and not "justice".
Probably should rewatch them with that theme in mind and see if that's what the movies are presenting, if anything.
Finally: if there's moral relativism, how do the force users fit into the "Superman Paradox"?
That is, if superman has all these powers why should he be good at all? (Presuming for a second he wasn't fictional).
If there's so much moral relativism WITHIN The force itself, why would there be Jedi at all? Aren't they all, in fact, Sith at that point?
Damn prequel/sequels. It's fun to talk about anyway.
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Post by starcruiser on May 11, 2018 16:25:49 GMT -7
That's the real world concept of "absolute power corrupting, absolutely".
It's at the core of the whole Superman Paradox in itself. Supes has so much power, he could easily take over the world but, for some reason - he's unwilling to step over the line and chooses the moral high ground of "Truth, Justice and the American way".
Qui Gon Jinn in The Phantom Menace was, in truth, the real menace in the film. More so than Palpatine himself. Qui Gon Jinn basically dismissed "lesser" beings (Yes, Jar Jar is definitely a lesser being) as of little interest to him. He was willing to manipulate anyone he could, in any way he could, to accomplish whatever goal he had in mind.
Count Dooku had been a Jedi, even an apprentice of Yoda himself and he turned to the Dark Side (TM) out of disappointment with the Jedi order.
I have no issue with the Jedi being the source of their own downfall. That actually makes some sense, considering their power and influence. All Palpatine had to do was push a little here, pull a little there, keep them off balance and laugh about it.
TLJ (and to a lesser extent TFA) were both badly written films. Their faults could fill a book by itself.
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