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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 10, 2013 21:31:18 GMT -7
I was thinking, "what if the trek universe went to war with the Star Wars universe?" In this senario all factions in each universe would unite together to fight the other. So for Trek you have it all: Borg, Krenim, Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Dominion, Kardassian and everything else excluding Q. (Im pretty sure he is to OP for this) This would be the same for SW. If I had to choose (which I do) then I would pick Star Trek. Picture it! All federation forcess are sitting in a defensive formation, then suddenly all governments in the SW universe apear in an attack formation comming in on ST. The Federation and all other main Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Delta powers imediatly open fire. The smaller powers flanks the SW fleet closing in on the rear. The Death star comes in and starts blasting away at capital fleets. Most of the Federation/Dominion/Cardassian/Romulan/Klingon/Brean fleet is wiped off the map and so is alot of the Borg fleet (they cant addapt to the massive Planet Killer) The Krenim Time Ship (which was already hit twice with the Planet Death beam doing only minor damage of course) turns from the vast amounts of ships it is erasing and fires its weapon at the Death Star. Instantly the DeathStar and its entire crew including Darth Vader and 'The Emporer" is erased from history. Now suddenly most of the fleet turns into small ships with low powerd lasers and torpedos due to the fact that the "Dark Side" is the main reason of the massive over-militarization in the SW universe in the first place. (much like if WW2 hadent happened the United States wouldnt be the OP Superpower it is today). The SW fleet is destroyed with ease and ST wins. Now with Q... The Star Trek fleet is about to face off with the Star Wars fleet when suddenly there is a brightflash and the entire SW fleet is gone, simply never existing. The battle is won by ST. Now I would like to compare technologies used in both universes 'documentary' style. Well here goes: Propulsion: In Star Wars there was a scene when the Millinium Falcon jumps into hyperspace and gets away from the "Empire". A little while later a General on a Death Star says they would be on the other side of the Galaxy by now. Thats what I call fast (though how far away from the other side of "the galaxy" is never stated) In Star Trek: Voyager it takes close to 70 years to get to the Alpha Quadrant at their highest warp speed (warp 9) which is coincidentally on the other side of the galaxy. They do find other sources of travel but 'Warp Speed' is the most common so I wont go over it here. Weapons Technology: In Star Wars lazers are the common weapon. At different 'tiers' for different species. Lazers are seen burning holes in people and exploding on impact which leads me to believe that they are really super heated plasma which differes from the Phaser being an actuall energy weapon. In Star Trek: The Next Generation the Enterprise D faces a oponent who uses 'Lazers'. Although due to my therory that SW weapons are super heated plasma instead of energy weapons and the fact that Romulan phasers (stated as being plasma weapons) deal huge amounts of damge that this is pretty evenly matched. 'The Force' vs 'The Q Continium': In certain Star Wars scenes the force is used to slightly manipulate peoples thoughts and Yoda is seen after a large amount of concentration lift a X-Wing out of a swamp. In Star Trek: Basically Every Series Ever 'Q' can be seen: Moving ships acrossed the galaxy, make whatever he wants to apear, manipulate people through trickery, make things disapear, make things reapear, alter reality... basicaly do anything. Tactics or Cpt. Kirk vs Han SoloHan Solo: He is seen running into things. Never stoping to think about what is going to happen, but when he is in a pinch he can pull of some damned impressive moves and he even evaded 3 Death Stars at close combat. Cpt. Kirk: Cpt. Kirk thinks about tactics and what could happen before running into combat. During his fight with a 'Gorn' he sneaks above it to throw boulders, evades it and hits it in the back, and damn he even made a cannon to kill it out of nothing more than Bamboo and sulfure. Well this conludes what I have to say feel free to argue in the comments! But dont let it become nothing but insults that is anoying.
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Post by JAFisher44 on Jan 11, 2013 22:40:01 GMT -7
Let's not have a Star Trek vs. Star Wars thread here. It's pointless. Both are fictional universes. There are no "hard facts" to compare.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 12, 2013 7:42:15 GMT -7
Ok.
Its probably better due to the fact that if a Trekee finds this and then a Star Wars fan.... well lets not go into the details do you want me to delete this?
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Post by JAFisher44 on Jan 16, 2013 21:36:49 GMT -7
I wasn't posting as an admin, just a member. Your last line was, "What's your take?"
that's my take.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 16, 2013 23:21:03 GMT -7
Oh, I see thanks.
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Post by Gorn on Jan 18, 2013 19:15:57 GMT -7
ST >>>> SW. TOS Enterprise alone could handle a Star Destroyer easily, despite the difference in size. Turbolasers probably couldn't even dent Ent-D shields, so TOS could probably handle them pretty well. ONE photon torp alone could probably take out a SD bridge. About the only thing SW could do would be to Kamikaze ST ships with their small snub fighters; and THOSE might not even make it past the navigational deflector.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 20, 2013 20:48:38 GMT -7
Yes but the SW version of FASA (dont remember what it is called) stated the Star Destroyers turbo laser energy.
And if my math is correct then after about 40 or 50 shots the Ent-D shields should be on the verge of having to rotate frequencies(?) so they wont collapse under strain. The Original Enterprise would have a run for its money against a Star Destroyer 2. After about 40 shots the shields would be destroyed, and it would take about 160 Turbo laser shots in the exact same place to penetrate the armor.
But really with the Borg and the Krenim time ship hell even just Q... who can beat us?
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Post by wnchstr on Jan 22, 2013 12:44:58 GMT -7
I have to admit that I just love these types of discussions. It doesn't matter that you can't really prove who is better; just making your argument is great fun. It's too bad that so many take it personally and threads have to get shut down because all to often it devolves into "You're a stinky poo-poo head for disagreeing with me."
I followed a link to a link to a link a while ago that discussed how the design flaws of the Empire would have doomed them in a fight. For example, in ST, the tractor beam controls are at the helmsman's station. In SW, the control box is at the end of a narrow walkway and just happens to be over a bottomless pit without a safety rail to be seen. No matter how powerful your turbo lasers are, you will be done in by an opponent who will exploit your weaknesses with commanders who don't have to worry about being strangled for failure.
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Post by wnchstr on Jan 22, 2013 12:52:59 GMT -7
By the way, I can't believe that the Star Trek powers that be never introduced a Star Wars analogue. They have to be aware (?) of the ST vs. SW debate. Such a conflict resolved in an offical manner would be nothing short of epic. Nerds wouldn't have any reason left to live.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 22, 2013 16:47:28 GMT -7
I agree with you, these are fun thats why I made it.
But of course a moderator is probably going to have to remove this before someone decides to start a flame war.
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Post by Gorn on Jan 22, 2013 19:58:10 GMT -7
You can't have one Star win. Then loads of paying fans would be super pissed. Look at Freddy vs Jason. You can't have an ultimate winner.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 22, 2013 22:56:26 GMT -7
Yes but it doesnt matter what one sides opinions are, what matters is the cold hard facts of the two shows.
And those are alot of ships in ST are much more powerfull than those from SW. Besides Q, nuff said.
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Post by wnchstr on Jan 25, 2013 12:18:43 GMT -7
If one were to envision such a match up, there would have to be some arbitrary limits. No pan dimensional super beings capable of atomizing entire fleets on a whim, for example. Also, it couldn't be the actual SW, just a lookalike. You would have an absolute monarchy headed up by an emperor who also was chief priest, a heavy emphasis on ground troops, capital ships with a bumpy look from all the gun emplacements and offense carried out mainly by one man fighter ships. Technology would be simpler than Fed equipment, but more robust. Most importantly, while sublight technology is similar, the Empire would use hyperspace to get around, rather than warping. Dissimilar, but possibly a much harder fight than first surmised.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 25, 2013 16:32:55 GMT -7
... to go against your hyperspace thing, warp 6 is faster than hyperspace (if I did my math right) that would mean that ST would have the advantage of moving great distances quickly due to the fact that pretty much all ST ships can travers at a maximum of warp 9.
Besides without Q we still have the Krenim time ship, and it is Cannon (and fannon) that almost all governments in Trek has some sort of ground operating military. I read a thing about how in a few removed scripts characters were to mention "tank like vehicles" during the Federation-Cardassian war. So we have a large ground support.
And their ship desings would doom them, I dont mean like they couldnt move in space (no sci-fi ships really would be able to) I mean like how they have flat sides and exposed guns. Most ships in ST by the time of the 24th century has a rounded hull and no exposed turrets. Especially the command centre of specifically the Imperial Star Destroyer. Most of the men are stationed on the edge of a rail-less 50 foot drop making it hard to operate in a turbulant invironment. Also the fact that a single beam from a Phaser or a hit from a Plasma torpedo would destroy the command centre.
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Post by wnchstr on Jan 26, 2013 10:55:10 GMT -7
The Emperor counters by appointing a safety Sith with sweeping powers to mandate safety rails and replace floor to ceiling glass walls on the bridge with a BSG style plate visor, against the wishes of the Admiralty, who think such measures will result in the crews becoming "soft".
I don't know which FTL method is faster; we all know it depends on the current episode. Even if slower, ST ships would have an advantage in being able to sense the space around them and make course changes while warping. They would also be able to send and receive communications. Conflict wise, a lot would depend on whether a ship in hyperspace was detectable or not. I always thought a ship that jumped to hyperspace had 'gotten away' and could only be followed if the pursuer knew the course and destination. A linchpin of the conflict could be how fast the chief engineer could modify the main sensor to detect jargon radiation, which we all know is emitted by a ship in hyperspace.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 26, 2013 13:50:00 GMT -7
Well ST has a huge advantage when it comes to Hyperspace.
In a DS9 episode a Dominion Fighter can be seen fighting a Centuri class starship while both were in warp. ST ships can detect and fire at other ships while at high speeds unlike in SW.
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Post by Gorn on Jan 26, 2013 14:45:03 GMT -7
Maybe hyperspace and Warp space are two different dimensions. For an Empire ( or Republic) to be spread across even a small galaxy, you would need some pretty high relative speeds.
But since they talk about an "Outer Rim", it's likely on the scale of 100,000 LY across...
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 26, 2013 19:49:41 GMT -7
Well said, but SW ships still cant fire in hyperspace.
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Post by wnchstr on Jan 26, 2013 22:55:57 GMT -7
If hyperspace is "hyper", then it could be assumed that hyperspace is a parallel dimension where things are more hyperactive compared to this one. The speed of light would be faster over there so while in hyperspace you could use your impulse engines to move very quickly relative to normal space. Being in a very energetic universe would make any sort of ship to ship interaction impossible since your vessel would be essentially deaf and blind. You wouldn't be able to fire your weapons, but neither would anyone else.
SW style ships don't have their FTL engines on pylons like ST does; that may reflect either the method being safer or caution on the part of ST designers. I also wonder how much energy it takes. Warping space must be an energy intensive process. Jumping to hyperspace might take more energy initially because you are mostly leaving the universe, but it might not take as much to maintain your ship's presence there.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 27, 2013 3:33:06 GMT -7
Well it is pretty energy extensive. I mean they need to use Matter and Anti-Matter together just to get enough power to run at Warp 1.
But really bending space a little bit and completely moving to a different universe is two different things all together. I can imagine not being to do anything in SWs form of long range transportation, they can also move in one direction only huge dis advantage to a Warp drive.
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Post by jeffwright on Jan 27, 2013 14:08:00 GMT -7
Now there are different types of hyperspace. The underspace of the Varduuar (Voyager) reminds me of the Babylon 5 hyperspace, where ships may fire at one another. I think slipstream and SW hyperspace are perhaps the best match. A ship is very safe there. The Galaxy of SW seems more vast and more explored than ST. I think certain hyperspace lanes may be faster than warp. We see in Stargate intergalactic capability on their Daedalus, but apart from zat guns, they still use slug-throwers. So here is my arguement. A civilization doesn't need to stumble into hyperspace too early. Warp drive increases in increments, and the work-arounds needed to get better warp factors drives other technologies. This allows a slow start in travel. In SW, you can seemingly travel across the galaxy, or even leave it as we saw in the close of Empire Strikes back. This means that a Republic can simply jet around any hostile systems and unify a bigger part of the galaxy With warp drive, you start bumping into other groups and have to learn quickly to deal with them or be trod underfoot--no going around them and outnumbering them, as seems to be the case with hyperspace. Therefore the Feds are like the USA, and the Republic like China.. Very old, nothing changes much, at least not quickly. Now Warp allows you do do research at speed. In hyperspace, you are locked up tight and have very little interaction. There is a stagnant aspect to SW. But I have heard arguements from pro SW folks (who go a little too far) that hyperspace is faster than warp--depending on..whatever. That's fair. The Stargate Earthship is more primitive than Trek ships in everything but propulsion. I would make battles between ST and SW with a third Terran Trade Authority type civilization with huge Foss type ships. A Trek ship only suffers to a SW ship if the latter has extra tech and the former weakened by an accident, or vice versa. This way, the arguements stay alive. I was thinking of a horrifying new device. Combine these two contraptions starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gravity_well_projector stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Attero_deviceBut powered by this: en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Omega_moleculeWith SW hypermatter and ST protomatter. The FTL-killer field effect. If a civilization wants a wall around it, you place a grid of these devices to keep ships well, away, allowing only spaceships to you propulsion we today have to use. Chemical, nuclear, etc.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Jan 27, 2013 16:43:47 GMT -7
Well if I remember correctly there is a Star Destroyer that creats a gravity field and pulls ships out of Hyperspace and doesnt allow them to leave the battle. That would be sufficient enoughto stop your contraption.
But, you have made alot of vallid points in that comment of yours. Bravo sir!
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morrus
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Posts: 83
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Post by morrus on Mar 3, 2013 16:01:59 GMT -7
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Mar 4, 2013 17:20:40 GMT -7
Seems like a good game but... I don't have the money to buy it.
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Post by jeffwright on Mar 8, 2013 16:27:11 GMT -7
Here is a scenario There is poor George Lucas now, on his intellectual deathbed as it were. He fell at a film shoot and has strange dreams on Ambien. What does he see? His shattered brain knits images of Travis Taylor's Rocket City Rednecks using bondo as solid fuel. What is omitted in 245? The number 3? No, because 245 have three digits...imaginedragons song Radioactive plays in the home during his impossible dreams. He sees the image of an Ice Warrior from Dr. Who become Judge Dread. Sputnik 3 becomes a Dalek, and the Saturn launched Pegasus become an X-wing. He is on Route 66 again in a Red Corvette with his friend Buzz. They buy apples and Peyote from an Amerind that looks like Michael Ansara. The racist cowboys call him Luke, but his indigenous name means "he who walks upon clouds." "I'll have to use that" he says. The image of the Indian weeps, then distorts into a combination of Frost and Nixon, that somehow merge with those of Bill Buckley and Dick Cavett in his brain--or was that Carson or Parr? They are talking about George's replacement: JJ Abrams. "Now Leia lost her home planet, and so did Quinto's Spock. Carrie may even resemble Amanda a bit." "I could see Quinto's Spock having trouble with emotions with Carrie winking at the audience saying something along the lines of 'I know all about that.'" "Clearly the days of the metal bikini are gone. Good. I like Carrie better as herself anyway." says George. "In order to keep the movie in a serious note, I might make Carrie's own background part of Leia's. She and Han aren't speaking after the loss of Jacen, we will say." They fight a lot of course. We stumble on a drunk Han trying to clean that blaster. "It's in pieces...I can't get it back together." The new characters then find Leia on Coruscant. Now, if you remember, in her darker days Carrie had dreams of futuristic cities as part of her condition--so you work with that--and have her talk with some CGI guys to do the section of Coruscant just outside the area on the planet that is actually not covered by the world-smothering city... It is the closest thing to Alderan, after all. Like Boothby, I can see her as a gardener there, trying--failing--to make something grow. Quinto's Spock thinks her Amanda for a moment, and they converse. Quinto beams up. The Falcon lands in this open zone and Han gets off the ramp, and goes to Leia. He gives the keys, as it were, to the new kids in JJs movie, post EU, and off they go. They are allowed to build a small hovel there, surrounded by mile tall buildings. It all looks quaint. We see Luke, who like Hamil, is a little heavy. He no longer can use the force, due to some sacrifice or other, and wants to visit old friends. This area of Coruscant is like a labyrinth. At the pink corner of Ul Qoma and Besźel, or was it at the triple junction of Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius, or at the square of Globus Cassus? I forget, but Luke bumps into a furtive veiled man--Hakim Dengar? Or was it Funes? At any rate, he was wearing Han's blaster! Luke fails to run after him, instead drawn by smoke from the hovel. No...not again. And there Han and Leia are...as burning skeletons. You see, there are worse things than having JJ directing Star Wars. It could have been Borges: O/T Nice saucer cross sections from stealth designs here--the saucers there are actually cross-sections of flying wings: up-ship.com/blog/?p=19203
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