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Post by jhonsenandrew on Mar 8, 2013 17:31:06 GMT -7
Well, that was interesting.
Still JJ will ruin Star Wars like he did Star Trek, you forgot to mention how about 60% of the time we will get to stare into a thousand different lens flare affects.
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Post by JAFisher44 on Mar 8, 2013 20:06:43 GMT -7
I hate to rain on your parade, but Lucas already ruined Star Wars. The worst JJ could do would be to keep it on par with Ep. 1, 2, 3.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Mar 8, 2013 20:52:33 GMT -7
That is true. The newer SW episodes were cheesy CGI with bad voice acting and a horrible plot.
At least JJTrek had good acting and a solid plot.
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Post by starcruiser on Mar 8, 2013 21:56:09 GMT -7
Blink blink... solid plot?? There was a plot?
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Post by Gorn on Mar 9, 2013 7:44:31 GMT -7
I'm pretty sure, morrus, that you can't make $$$ of any type on someone else's franchise, even if it's for charity - you might want to check those laws and perhaps could let us know in here what you have learned. If someone can LEGALLY gather $$$ for charity that changes the whole thing! I would most certainly go for that!
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morrus
Lieutenant Junior Grade
Posts: 83
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Post by morrus on Mar 9, 2013 12:59:44 GMT -7
I'm pretty sure, morrus, that you can't make $$$ of any type on someone else's franchise, even if it's for charity - you might want to check those laws and perhaps could let us know in here what you have learned. If someone can LEGALLY gather $$$ for charity that changes the whole thing! I would most certainly go for that! Don't worry, Gorn, I publish things for a living; it's my job. It's legally fine. Without boring you with the details, it doesn't directly reference any franchise.
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Post by rarcher on Mar 12, 2013 19:34:47 GMT -7
You can't have one Star win. Then loads of paying fans would be super pissed. Look at Freddy vs Jason. You can't have an ultimate winner. actually total derail here but i think your wrong in that movie, by my view technically neither could win for many long ranting reasons, in the end it was the 'humans' who won ditto for AvP again neither won really it was 'humans' who did it
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Mar 13, 2013 15:06:10 GMT -7
That is like saying both the Axis and the Allies won WW2 and that both the Roman Empire and Goth both won their war. Simply because both sides are the same species. Although this may not be your point.
Regardless your logic is still flawed. One side has to win no matter what, that is how wars work. And we are talking about which would win a war with each other after all.
One more thing, if it is all the factions in both shows/movies fighting each other then it would be more than the 'Humans' who won. Because both universes have a vast amount of alien species.
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Post by starcruiser on Mar 13, 2013 18:37:47 GMT -7
Technically - both sides can loose...
Hence the cold war between the USA and USSR. We both knew the cost and never fought directly.
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Mar 13, 2013 19:23:18 GMT -7
But in a military conflict (unless a surrender is signed) there will always be a looser.
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Post by rarcher on Mar 14, 2013 7:59:11 GMT -7
That is like saying both the Axis and the Allies won WW2 and that both the Roman Empire and Goth both won their war. Simply because both sides are the same species. Although this may not be your point. Regardless your logic is still flawed. One side has to win no matter what, that is how wars work. And we are talking about which would win a war with each other after all. One more thing, if it is all the factions in both shows/movies fighting each other then it would be more than the 'Humans' who won. Because both universes have a vast amount of alien species. I was talking in reference to the F v J and A v P movies not trek vs star wars tbh in such a case it would come down to the superior planner i would think if such a fight did happen it would have to be on a neutral battle field and plane ala not set in either universes galaxy or places. Likely then you would see a brief skirmish when both powers appeared then a retreat by both sides followed by a long protracted scrabble for resources planets etc etc with further battles skirmishes etc along the way so in the end barring any Q interference (except maybe having been the one to set this all in motion) it'd likely come down to the Verse that gets the best setup of resources planning and such or the one that zergling rushes the other ;D
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Post by jhonsenandrew on Mar 14, 2013 18:21:58 GMT -7
Which would be the Federation. It is common sense that exploration vessels can find and colonize planets better than Warships do. Besides in Star Wars ships can't go into hyperspace without a computer thing to calculate the distance since they can't move or power down in hyperspace. Meaning that the Empires ships wouldn't be able to move at high speeds until the stars are charted out and then placed relative to their stars. Which would take weeks. And with Star Wars computer technology it would take even longer. So while the Empire is struggling to get their Nav-Computers (yay remembered it's name ) working the Federation would be cruising from star system to star system grabing recourses.
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Post by wnchstr on Mar 15, 2013 22:55:56 GMT -7
I guess the winner would be the good guys, meaning if the Federation went up against the Empire the Federation would win, but if the Klingon Empire went up against the Rebellion, the Rebellion would give them a good run for their money.
Returning to the warp vs. hyperspace discussion, I'm beginning to wonder if pre-Federation Earth didn't use hyperspace for at least a brief time before the invention of warp. IMHO, it would go a long way towards explaining certain aspects ST history and technology. Saucer shaped sections on starships? Holdover from the days when hyperspace engines were centrally located and provided an equidistant field. Federation and Starfleet centralized around Earth? Earthlings invented warp, propelling them to the lead. Primitive looking technology? Electronics in hyperspace have to use vacuum tubes in order to function in the intense electromagnetism. Liberal use of hairspray and pomade? Fighting static.
I tend to agree that hyperspace users are possibly faster when travelling within space known to them, but things become difficult if not outright lethal when entering uncharted space, with a good navigator helping your odds considerably. One important part of the war would be espionage with the Empire doing whatever it took to obtain maps. (Or not. I can imagine Imperial agents scuttling back to the Empire with all the information they need after having one of those "Mutually beneficial exchanges of information." [As recorded in the captain's log] with a well meaning Federation ship.)
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Post by jeffwright on Mar 16, 2013 13:01:47 GMT -7
There is a lot of discussion on the SS Valiant on the web these days.
Maybe that program nixed hyperspace for something that allowed a flyby of systems which still allowed scans as you pass by--as opposed to being isolated in hyperspace.
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Post by wnchstr on Mar 16, 2013 22:20:19 GMT -7
That makes a lot of sense. The ST side seems to be better at doing it's job of actively "seeking out" while I'm not sure what motivates SW explorers. Their age of exploration may be in the distant past with discovery being more of an infrequent thing these days, driven more by accident and chance.
On the other hand, ST does a pretty poor job of maximizing the resources it has. We've discussed their preference for SoCal worlds; I can't imagine a ST colony ship even stopping at Tatooine, much less offloading someone willing to farm.
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Post by jeffwright on Mar 21, 2013 15:24:35 GMT -7
This is why I call Star Wars tech a bit stagnant. Give a caveman a bus-pass (hyperspace) and he never invents the wheel (tech that comes from pushing warp factors up) . You see that in stargate. You see people move world to world by walking through hoops, who then never develop rockets or flight. In a Star Trek, you have a race of Ur humanoids who seed life. They develop warp and start bumping into each other and have to think on their feet fast. In the Star Wars universe, hyperspace was developed too quickly, and too early. Hyperspace lanes grew up. This allowed galaxy spanning resource utilization and unification of a human empire that encircled other developing worlds. In trek, you bumped into Klingons and the fight was on. In SW, you just skipped over them and settled around them. In hyperspace, (non Vardauaar?Babylon 5) ships don't interact. So the Klingons never know they have been flanked. By the time they are ready to start an empire, it is too late. Humans are everywhere in the galaxy. The problem is, all the early frequent butting of heads made the Federation better, grow quicker. So while the Feds are nowhere near unifying the galaxy as the Republic/Empire was, they are technically up a bit from dealing with things at warp. So transporters are developed. Shuttles with anti-gravity don't have to have wings, spoilers, etc, so sublight performance isn't as great as with x-Wings. The closest thing to an SW vs ST battle was on clone wars when you had Umbaran tech that looked like a cross between feddie tech and that of the Kyben (Earth-Kyba War) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_with_a_Glass_Hand No lived in super-detail, but flowing trek-like lines www.jedinews.ca/news/news.aspx?newsID=10064The starfighter was based on part of a dinosaur-skeleton. Individually, the tech was superior, but the Republic had solid milspec hardware and greater numbers.
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Post by wnchstr on Mar 26, 2013 22:33:47 GMT -7
I agree, but I also think the ST world managed to skip technology on it's way to FTL travel. In the ST timeline, interplanetary travel is relatively common possibly as early as the 1980's. Hibernation has been developed to facilitate long travel times, and artificial gravity hints at more advanced technology. If artificial gravity can be used for an impulse drive, then Earth ships to other star systems could have set out before the turn of the century. Two centuries is a pretty compressed timeline space wise; hyperspace may have been discovered not too long afterwards.
In regards to SW technology and conflict while expanding, I think it would depend on how the early travelers were able to explore the galaxy. If they had to move slowly using brief hyperspace jumps, then skipping over may have not been practical. The first Romulan War may have started the same way with explorers suddenly appearing in the middle of Romulan space and being taken as a threat. On the other hand, some other race may have done the exploring millennia previously and left their maps. To me, the "recovery of the knowledge of the ancients" may explain the more mystical bent of the SW universe. A fight for control of an ancient map showing the way to Planet X sounds more like a SW plot than a ST one, in my opinion.
Finally in general, permit me the heresy to suggest that the word galaxy may not mean the same thing to us as it does to those in the past and future. Given the size of an average galaxy, there is no way a ST vessel could reach the middle of one or a SW empire have any control over the barest fraction of a percent of one. Seriously, amongst trillions of planets, how would Tarkin have even recognized the name of Dantooine for the location of the Rebel base? Perhaps galaxy means any collection of stars ranging from a normal galaxy to a dwarf or halo galaxy or even a simple star cluster within what we call a galaxy.
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Post by Gorn on Mar 27, 2013 19:59:36 GMT -7
"The Outer Rim" pretty much gives it away.
Now you have to think of a fanfic reason that Tarkin noticed the name.
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Post by jeffwright on Apr 1, 2013 16:03:42 GMT -7
Well, here is the SW version of Slavers/Preservers/The Chase aliens etc. starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Celestialstarwars.wikia.com/wiki/ColumiMost planets are probably lifeless, and the ones that may have life were probably mapped early on, so I can see Tarkin responsible for planets in his area of the galaxy, or a memory of a visit there. Even here, with billions of us, there seems to be this Kevin baconesque rule of seven degrees of sep from anyone.
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Chris
Ensign
I say yes! You say no! It's like the Beatles song!
Posts: 30
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Post by Chris on Feb 13, 2014 13:33:24 GMT -7
Hmm, well, treknology far outstrips anything in star wars. Warp is probably faster than hyperdrive. The weapons are far more powerful. Shields, again better in trek. The only real advantage that an ISD would have is that you would have to shoot the shit out of it, borg style, to get any results. Then there are all those flimsy little mosquito--- I mean tie fighters buzzing around. So...
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Post by Konthar on Sept 2, 2014 9:43:19 GMT -7
Sorry to Necropost here, I was updating my bookmarks & remembered how much I enjoyed Brad's work on Fasa's ST game from over a decade ago. Glad to see he's still kicking. Then I just meandered around the site & ended up seeing this topic. You guys know how traveling the Internet works, I'm sure. Anyway, happy to see there isn't a lot of flaming & Gnashing of Teeth at opposing viewpoints, it's all too rare online. To add to the discussion I present this man's work on the subject- www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.htmlNow clearly he favors SW over ST & that's fine. Personally for me I've waded through way too many decades of Sci-Fi to get too devoted to anything. Especially stories that are Corporation-driven. There's good material & plenty of suckage in both series. However, it should not be ignored that the Old Republic *has* been an interstellar organization for (roughly) 25,000 years, while the Federation is only a few hundred years old. (TNG-Era) That in and of itself, says a great deal.
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Post by krebizfan on Sept 3, 2014 20:45:40 GMT -7
That Star Wars comparison relies on Star Wars using words the way they are used in contemporary English despite things like "parsecs" not being a measure of distance. Slave-1 might be throwing 2000 pound bombs according the description but the effects on screen are much weaker than that. It should be making big craters in everything.
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Post by jeffwright on Sept 14, 2014 12:41:00 GMT -7
The only place where he loses me is on Slave 1 being superior to the Ent-D. I don't think that reads wel on screen, and some of the specs for SW ships have been retconned. A Star destroyer over the D--and the ENTD over the slave-1 just makes for better on screen sense.
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Post by Gorn on Sept 14, 2014 18:12:58 GMT -7
You know, I've been rather annoyed at phasers being set to pulse. Like since when the hell are those phasers? Everyone knows it was damn ILM who, taking over the effects for WoK, set the phasers to pulse action. BULLSHIT. They are ongoing conduit streams of destructive, in-phase energy that will rip apart almost anything. Sooooo much more powerful than turbolasers. The ORIGINAL Enterprise could whip across a Star Destroyer's hull and phaser rip it to shreds in one pass.
Then they had to have the phaser rifles start pulsing at some point in what? DS9?
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