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Post by cowboy40 on Nov 3, 2018 7:03:28 GMT -7
stop the world, I want off this plate
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Post by rabid on Jan 7, 2019 12:46:44 GMT -7
I've been looking into their claims...most of them debunk NASA and link it to "flat earth"...NASA is a fraud ergot the earth must be flat. That's how the argument goes.
Unfortunately some of the criticism of NASA (the low earth orbit stuff) is hard to discount, they are asking some tough questions.
Has anyone else seen it?
I should t have to say this but: Note before you respond that I do not question the moon landings. I know the earth isn't flat.
But some of the low earth orbit footage is weird...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 7, 2019 15:35:44 GMT -7
Dang it... Post a link so I can look at the weirdness that is Flat Earth for myself. The interesting thing about LEO is that you can see it with the naked eye - so obviously something is zipping around up there.
(I'm more of a "Solar Warden" guy, but "Flat Earth" is still entertaining).
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Post by rabid on Jan 7, 2019 21:31:43 GMT -7
Ok...this is going to be...Difficult. I want to show what they are complaining about while completely disavowing it. If anyone thinks I'm promoting this flat earth stuff you are missing the point. Earth has been round since Anaximander, not even the people in the DARK AGES truly believed the earth was flat. There's no going back to a flat earth, ever. It's done.
Additionally, philosophically speaking if the earth was actually flat, and nothing beyond us above or below, that would be suicidally depressing for us as a species. We've looked at the stars and wondered for millennia, so if that view were a façade it would be unbearable. Thankfully that can't be true.
Enough qualification already...but I'm sure there's a blockhead out there just waiting to take this the wrong way.
The problem is shenanigans on the part of NASA that are very hard to discount if you look at them seriously. I almost wish I wouldn't have opened this can of worms. I'm sure there's a more mundane explanation. But here's a few examples...
wires: (watch the hand of the guy in the USMC Shirt) www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-huF7fRlnA www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iZX8riQ90w
Blue screens: Look at the back when they wheel ol' George in front of the camera www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJJJOZ3AyjI
THIS is the biggest compilation I can find. Astronauts arms disappearing, grabbing objects that aren't there, pointy things jabbing out of clothing:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-zzqW1WKZE
The school video at 3:11 is the strangest example of what appears to be "wires" on the international space station. at 12:30 is actual proof they used a blue screen on space (at least for this segment)
At the end it gets really weird, they ask why NASA rockets always take off in an ellipse and show another rocket lauching 76k miles up and it suddenly seems to get stuck in something. Because of this they claim it's the "firmament" and no one ever went higher than 76k miles. Then at 23:34 they have footage from other rockets up to 76k miles where you can't see the earth's curvature yet. (Obviously from their perspective only NASA has been higher, but nasa is full of liars, naturally).
another question: Why do female astronauts always have their hair plastered with gel? Why don't ponytails wobble? It's just bizarre and of course it's fodder for conspiracy nuts when there's probably a simple explanation.
This one: www.youtube.com/watch?v=fznwTaWrOEc Someone's face appears next to the space shuttle (probably a reflection in the glass).
Get back to me when you watch it.
But the problem is this: Anti-vaxxers aren't "anti-science" necessarily, it's that an unethical scientist presented a faulty result which was more appealing to them. Hence most of them won't credit a medical professional because they have the "Real" information. No one can talk them out of the specialist knowledge that they have gained.
Here it's the opposite cause for the same result. Flat earthers won't believe "real" science because so much of it appears spurious. This shit is as crazy as 9/11 truther crap and it's an even deeper rabbit hole, if that's possible. These videos are endless with millions of views. So I have to ask what's going on here, and why should there ever have been a reason to doubt, a blue screen, the appearance of wires, reflections of camera men wearing scuba gear. There's just too many questions to accept that NASA is up in space everytime they say they are.
So, since they reason that NASA is fake based on videos like that, then the flat earth must be comparatively reasonable.
Do you see what I mean?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 12:50:18 GMT -7
There is a lot of ignorance being displayed in these videos (Why don't NASA rockets fly this fast and straight?). I bit of Comic Book Logic as well (augmented contact lenses?).
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Post by rabid on Jan 8, 2019 13:52:58 GMT -7
Sure. But why do they look like they are on wires? What the hell is tbaf astonaut doing with his hands after the backflip?
Just saying that's what begs the question.
Conversely the same happens with people who deny the moon landings (it was slow motion! Never mind that slow motion cameras sufficient to run that frame rate didn't exist back then).
People will invent whole new technologies to support their preferred world view.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2019 15:19:51 GMT -7
I understand that.
Wires... Not in the first vid. The female Astronaut's necklace appears to be free-floating. The flipping astronaut had his arms partially extended beyond the width of his hips (where a wire harness would be worn). they would have interfered with the wires. That's why the classic Kung-Fu movie flip involves the actor tucking his arms in. The little wire-like object the Marine seems to grab does have me stumped though.
Grabbing for invisible objects and some of the other motions look to be attempts to arrest motion, reposition, or stay in one location or orientation.
As for the Blue Screens... I saw cargo restraint, someone else sees a blue-screen. HUGE FACE in SPACE... looked more like a reflection. watch again and pay attention to where the face overlaps the inside of the cargo bay. He's still visible.
Some of the stuff I am curious about; where is the telemetry (other than maybe Jodrel Bank)? What's up with the dude fading as he enters a corridor? and a few other points.
There is, however, only one way to prove we never went to the moon; take me to the Sea of Tranquility and show me a complete lack of footprints.
You watch enough King-Fu Movies and you learn to spot good wire work.
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Post by JAFisher44 on Jan 8, 2019 17:49:59 GMT -7
I can't wait till we develop optics with good enough resolution to see the stuff we left on the moon (rovers, descent stages, etc), or not. That should resolve some stuff. Of course even if we can see it with a telescope the hardcore deniers will still say it's faked somehow.
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Post by rabid on Jan 8, 2019 18:11:11 GMT -7
It's already happened, there's a lunar satellite and the rover tracks and lander are visible.
To the deniers it's "photoshopped".
They don't have an easy answer for the lunar reflectors the Apollo missions placed though. all these videos ignore that.
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Post by JAFisher44 on Jan 8, 2019 20:09:46 GMT -7
I mean a land based telescope that they can literally look through. Of course unless they saw and actually understood the construction of the telescope they'd probably just claim it somehow shows them a false image.
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Post by rabid on Jan 9, 2019 4:47:21 GMT -7
I don't doubt the moon landing but I think there may be some fakery going on with the international space station. Probably due to some innocuous reason, Probably due to budget cuts. On the other hand it should have been easy enough to hire someone to prove it's faked.
Have you noticed all of these conspiracies imbue government with both malicious motive and flawless propaganda?
Ditto for 9/11 truth, flat earth and chem trails. Everything else leaks but the largest, most complex and baffling conspiracy is closely guarded? No way.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 4:55:36 GMT -7
rabid, I'll admit that there are a few things in the ISS video feeds that I can't readily explain... But I do not believe this is evidence of a conspiracy, just evidence of my limited knowledge. OK... we've been over this issue on other topics. The Flat Earthers are "BELIEVERS" in that that have no actual proof of their claims, only weak rationalizations offered as disproof of the moon landing and space flight... I mean, you're up against this level of logic: They are interesting and amusing (and a little sad) to observe but not really worth much emotional or mental investment. I would, however, like to see some video of Flat Earthers arguing with the Solar Warden or Blue Sphere crowd. That would seem to have a high entertainment value. Solar Warden Factions ► [ LINK] Brace yourselves before viewing. David Wilcock (the skinny blonde guy from "Ancient Aliens") is completely nuts.
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Post by rabid on Jan 9, 2019 5:15:08 GMT -7
"I'll admit that there are a few things in the ISS video feeds that I can't readily explain... But I do not believe this is evidence of a conspiracy, just evidence of my limited knowledge."
Agreed. Maybe those funky arm movements are a natural consequence of a zero-g environment. Lol how the hell would I know?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2019 12:03:59 GMT -7
When you start digging into this Flat Earth thing you start to find some craziness. When you start digging into Solar Warden, you find complete insanity. I have not looked into Sasquatch much. My research (and information I received from a high-ranking official in the CIA) points towards Sasquatch having gone extinct on Earth around 2000 CE. As it turns out, their droppings are coveted as a highly potent aphrodisiac by the Gray Aliens who abducted them all and took them to specially constructed habitats located in the Jovian Lagragian points, where they live in the lap of luxury (on a high-fiber diet). Unfortunately the Moon Nazi's have started abducting Sasquatch to use them as slave labor building their new Martian base at the bottom of Valles Marinaris near Melas Chasma. Fortunately several Dark Fleet ships were intercepted by the Blue Sphere Alliance and some Sasquatch were rescued. They were apparently given the option of returning to Earth or their specially-built Habitats and they chose the Habitats. Apparently I am totally wrong about this...
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Post by starcruiser on Jan 9, 2019 17:25:28 GMT -7
OF COURSE! It all makes sense now!
All of those weird dreams weren't just dreams, were they?
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Post by rabid on Jan 10, 2019 8:13:08 GMT -7
I hear they found some Things left behind by aliens at a landing site in Arizona.
The xenohiologists on scene said it was apparent that the Aliens have a fondness for corn.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 14:02:34 GMT -7
Our flat Earther Friends are pretty much bonkers. These guys are actually pretty funny:
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Post by cowboy40 on Jan 18, 2019 15:47:01 GMT -7
You know, the idea of a Flat Earth is so wrong...If it was flat, all the cats in the world would have pushed everything over edge by now!!!
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Flat Earth
Jan 18, 2019 16:30:32 GMT -7
via mobile
Post by rabid on Jan 18, 2019 16:30:32 GMT -7
There's only one argument you need to debunk it.
If it's flat then shouldn't it be infinite?
If it's flat what's on the other side?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2019 13:09:27 GMT -7
It doesn't work that way. You can't expect irrational people to respond to a rational argument. Conspiracy theorists and flat-earthers are just nuts. I mean, I work in the aviation industry, and when I tell chem-trailers that they are in error (and no... I don't just say "You're stupid and wrong" because that just makes people dig in their heels), they tell me I'm either wrong or part of the conspiracy (sigh).
Look at the Moon-Landing nut-bars. The Chinese "Jade Rabbit" lander destroyed all of their talking points (except the Van Allen belts thing). Their response... Jade Rabbit is also a hoax...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2020 8:50:53 GMT -7
Well... I guess we're down a flat-earther. I watched the video and it's pretty easy to figure out the problem; it was a really bad idea.
Yeah, the parachute deployed at launch (that's a problem, but not the problem), but the big mechanical issues are: 1. It tore off! 2. There was only one parachute - no reserve.
The chute tore off before the "rocket" was going very fast, so it was clearly not up to the task. Even if it had stayed with him to apogee, he would have been killed (or at least injured again). If the thing would have had two or three 'chutes, he might have made it.
But it was just a bad idea anyway. He could have tested it unmanned, worked out the bugs (like there is no way a steam-powered single stage rocket is going to carry anyone to the edge of space*), and flown more safely - or better yet, figured out that it was a remarkably bad idea.
Kind of a symptom of Flat-Earthism; they get a bad idea and stick to it no matter what. No dose of reality is large enough to change their minds. Usually this just gets them ridiculed, once in a while it gets them killed. I hate to see anyone die in a way that is certain to be viewed by thousands, and will make his memory the stuff of bad jokes. I mean, I'm sure he had friends and a family who cared a lot about him, but C'MON, MAN! I'm shocked he lasted as long as he did.
Worst of all is that people let him do it. People let him use their land. They provided the launch vehicle, recovery buggies, and ground support team. They helped him do this, then acted all shocked when the completely predictable happened.
YouTube has cleaned up the videos available. Yesterday there was footage of the impact.
* - not including some of the speculative beamed-power rockets using water as the propellant.
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Post by starcruiser on Mar 2, 2020 9:27:18 GMT -7
Yep - not exactly a surprise now was it?
Odd thing is, some have reported that "Mad Mike" wasn't actually a Flat-Earther himself. Just a daredevil...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2020 10:34:13 GMT -7
I have read that as well. The claim is that he played up the flat Earth idea because the Flat Earthers were paying a large portion of his expenses.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Mar 8, 2020 9:06:59 GMT -7
I’d like to pipe in on this. I watched many of the videos. As for the disappearing arm as the astronaut goes through the side hatch, I think that’s more a problem of the video feed, false image. Bad cameras not bad photography. Grabbing the wire to stabilize the tumbling astronaut? Looks to me like his pinky finger caught the pocket. Overhead wires on the moon? There is an antenna on the top of the backpack that creates a reflective flash. Look at any video panning past the sun or just watch JJ Abrams Enterprise bridge shots. Lol. As for the guy grabbing air and putting it on the shelf beside him? That actually looked as weird as Governor Tark (not sure on spelling) in the Rogue One. Maybe it’s all true. The Earth IS flat. And that bright light they say is the space station is actually a drone they have flying over the entire U.S. And don’t worry about coronavirus, it can’t last long, it’s made in China
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Post by rabid on Mar 11, 2020 18:03:18 GMT -7
It's a topic for another thread but the hysteria over corona virus makes me think that we should put the flat-earthers in charge. Our world is run by hysterical idiots and our news media NEVER leads with the facts. There's always an angle, particularly in this case how it will reflect on the election. It's disgusting.
If you are 18-29 you have a less than 2% chance of dying of corona virus based on the morbidity/mortality ratio. Some say "Yeah but Italy..." Sorry wrong, Italy's age demographic is on average 10 years older than the US.
*sigh*
I couldn't help but feel bad for the FLat earther who bought the farm here. But I couldnt' help but think that must have been one hell of an exhilarating ride, at least until he learned how it was going to end.
Also again, I don't think the earth is flat. Just some weird crap on the NASA feeds and I doubt they are up there as often as they say they are. That's all. But it feeds into the conspiracy theorists and they go build rockets and blow up.
That's what happens to people when they believe their own BS.
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