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Post by cowboy40 on Jan 21, 2019 12:07:21 GMT -7
We have Section 31, but we also have Star Fleet Intelligence.
Section 31 is suppose to be set up under the Federation Charter, while SFI operates under the Star Fleet tables of organization.
I wonder how these agencies wold interact with each other. Would it be as contentions as the CIA and Offline Naval Intelligence? Would they be able to work together? Or are they they the two sides to the same coin?
What are your thoughts?
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Post by kaisernathan1701 on Jan 21, 2019 13:42:10 GMT -7
Maybe but according to the ep of DS9 S31 was supposed to be so secret there was no record of it ever existing until they tried to recruit Bashir
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Post by brickwall on Jan 21, 2019 16:30:55 GMT -7
We have Section 31, but we also have Star Fleet Intelligence. Section 31 is suppose to be set up under the Federation Charter, while SFI operates under the Star Fleet tables of organization. I wonder how these agencies wold interact with each other. Would it be as contentions as the CIA and Offline Naval Intelligence? Would they be able to work together? Or are they they the two sides to the same coin? What are your thoughts? Well, in my proposed Kephan Unity RPG adventure An Armada On The Cheap, you'd have the Federation delegates do some things to take Section 31 by surprise. So they has to scrape up a "scratch force" and send them to the Orion's homeworld.
In the RPG scenario, there is no love lost between SFI and Section 31. I would think that would have been the case during Federation history. In real life, that seems to be the state of relations between the FBI and the CIA.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jan 21, 2019 17:02:42 GMT -7
Ok, lets take this talk one step farther. in the Star Fleet Intelligence supplements, there is talk about the United Earth having its own intelligence agency..the The Terran Intelligence Agency (not to origneal), we also know the Vulcans have their own apprentice for gaining intil. You can figure the Anderian Imperial Guard also had theirs...you see my point. We can awesome many of the member worlds have their own agencies. These "local" agencies would deal with matters that threaten those member worlds...most likely even spying on each other....
Then you come Star Fleet Intelligence Command. What would their duties be. Naturally matters that threaten the security of the Federation, matters on gaining info on foreign militarizes and so on...maybe even some counterintelligence work...what other duties would they do?
Now in the would of cloak and dagger, where to the "spooks" of Section 31 come into play. We have seen from on screen evidence they maintain a basement of dirty tricks and so on...they are willing to do what ever it takes to keep the Federation living. What are their duties and operations compared to the local agencies and SFI.
Where do all these agencies fit in the big picture, and then you have to ask yourself why such a benevolent government need so many spooks? What does that say for the Star Trek Universe?
What agency would be the clearing hose for all these things the "spooks" would be bringing back...how will these agencies handle the threats?
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Post by krebizfan on Jan 22, 2019 23:26:14 GMT -7
I expect everyone would ignore Section 31 since they are not in any formal command hierarchy, the sort of character that fits in a comedy involving a totalitarian state.
Counterintelligence work would be SFIC's major task since about half the organization is scattered around in places where it can only do counterintelligence. It does seem to be the classic bureaucratic nightmare with a lot of duplication. I guess each of the 4 Gorn Activities Groups were there to make sure that none of the other 3 are trying to start a war.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 5, 2019 4:16:09 GMT -7
I haven’t seen a whole lot of this S31. As for what it says about the SFU, the writers have been trying to “dirty” the image for quite some time, to make “more realistic” is my guess. Remember the rat on the research station? So why not a “Black Ops” section that operates outside of the rules! They only follow rules, regulations and even laws when it suits their purpose. Think of Jason Bourne or Mission Impossible. They do whatever the “Director” (or person in giving orders) tells them and believe it’s in the best interests of the Federation. No checks. No balances. Little or no conscience. These kind of operations can lead to a dictatorship real easy. Could be how the alternate, Evil Federation Empire came about! Maybe Spock (in that universe) finally did something and now the “pendulum” is swinging in this one
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Post by tinker on Jun 8, 2019 5:53:24 GMT -7
Remember that DS9 portrayed the Federation as being a bit "darker" than the utopia of TOS and even other TNG shows. Because of this, it may be difficult to mesh together what agencies were doing what and how "pure" their motivations may...or may not be.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jun 8, 2019 12:38:22 GMT -7
The FASAverse tried to cover intl organizations long before the writers of DS9. They has dome foresight into where things were going to go after the "Gene" era!!!
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Post by krebizfan on Jun 8, 2019 22:11:15 GMT -7
Intelligence organizations were implied by Star Trek long before DS9 was started. Thanks to modern text searches, the phrase "intelligence reports" shows up in "Journey to Babel" and "The Enterprise Incident." There were a few appearances of both "Intelligence Reports" and "Starfleet Intelligence" in TNG prior to DS9 though DS9 ran with that ball heavily. The Star Trek comic seems to have the first use of the term "Starfleet Intelligence" which was given to the backstory for Xon about the time Wrath of Khan was released. FASA wisely took the idea and plugged it into a different style of potential campaign.
Section 31 tapped into the paranoid strain. The first appearance was fairly modest: evil tempter who may have limited support or may just be a complete nutter. Even the later DS9 appearances, Section 31 was relatively small with just a few personnel in key places, maybe. Keeping it unclear helps the organization remain somewhat plausible. If everyone is a member of it, it can't exactly be kept secret. The books with Section 31 operating complete fleets of technologically more advanced ships than regular Star Fleet edge into silliness.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 9, 2019 8:07:37 GMT -7
Agreed! Large fleets are silly. But single, experimental or exotic ships/equipment would be right up their alley. Write off the funding as R&D! You know, $100 hammers and such tend to draw attention |
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 9, 2019 8:09:41 GMT -7
Sorry, had to make a correction and haven’t figured out how to edit after posting
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 14, 2019 9:41:35 GMT -7
Where can I find info on the “Triangle” area? Free is best, of course. Just general info. Found a usable map. When I get to play, it’s just against myself. Have no problem with that. Been playing wargames against myself for decades. I am my own worst enemy and best ally! So I’ve noticed so many older ships sold to the civilian sector and I’ve always wanted to run a campaign with giant corporations battling it out over mining colonies and such. Talk about your “hostile takeover!” If I can get Centurion: Blood & Steel I’ll have ground battles as well. I figured Star Fleet Intelligence was the best place to ask
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Post by cowboy40 on Jun 14, 2019 12:03:43 GMT -7
Where can I find info on the “Triangle” area? Free is best, of course. Just general info. Found a usable map. When I get to play, it’s just against myself. Have no problem with that. Been playing wargames against myself for decades. I am my own worst enemy and best ally! So I’ve noticed so many older ships sold to the civilian sector and I’ve always wanted to run a campaign with giant corporations battling it out over mining colonies and such. Talk about your “hostile takeover!” If I can get Centurion: Blood & Steel I’ll have ground battles as well. I figured Star Fleet Intelligence was the best place to ask You can find out information on the Triangle from many of FASA's sources. but they do have one that is a suppliment for the game... Look for FASA #2007 The Triangle Others include: #2203 Trader Captains and Merchant Princes #2215 Triangle Campaign This one has some info on Triangle to how it relates to the UFP #2011 The Federation Hope this helps point you in some direction to what you need... |
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 14, 2019 16:11:23 GMT -7
Thank you Mr. Cowboy!!! Knew I could count on a guy with a 60 for an avatar! We’re you in one? I went from 48s to 60s to the “Jedi” tank.
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Post by cowboy40 on Jun 14, 2019 17:20:00 GMT -7
Nope was Navy, but appreciate the M48A5 and the 60, seen the marines using them from time to time...
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 15, 2019 6:39:09 GMT -7
No wonder you are so interested in this game. And that is why I was into Centurion. Right up my alley. Devoured the Hammer’s Slammers series of books but air-cushioned vehicles was not my thing, anti-gravity seemed the better way to go. But I digress...
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Post by tinker on Jun 17, 2019 4:50:20 GMT -7
Loved Centurion:
"You ride in 250 tons of crystalline-aligned titanium covering a ceramic ablative layer. You carry a 200mm Gauss Gun, two ten-gigawatt lasers, SMLM fire-and-forget anti-tank missiles, a Vulcan IV point-defense anti-missile system and a medley of other armor defeating weapons. Your tank is the ultimate product of 4,000 years of armored warfare.
Your life expectancy is less than two minutes."
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 17, 2019 12:51:48 GMT -7
That about sums it up!
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jun 24, 2019 13:35:09 GMT -7
Inscription found on the bridge of a Romulan Bird of Prey sold to a mercenary company: “I am as silent as the stars, as invisible as the wind and as deadly as the end of time”
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Post by tosfan1956 on Jul 4, 2019 11:20:42 GMT -7
I haven’t seen a whole lot of this S31. As for what it says about the SFU, the writers have been trying to “dirty” the image for quite some time, to make “more realistic” is my guess. Remember the rat on the research station? So why not a “Black Ops” section that operates outside of the rules! They only follow rules, regulations and even laws when it suits their purpose. Think of Jason Bourne or Mission Impossible. They do whatever the “Director” (or person in giving orders) tells them and believe it’s in the best interests of the Federation. No checks. No balances. Little or no conscience. These kind of operations can lead to a dictatorship real easy. Could be how the alternate, Evil Federation Empire came about! Maybe Spock (in that universe) finally did something and now the “pendulum” is swinging in this one So at the time I wrote this I had not seen ST Continues. Then I saw the Mirror, Mirror episode (whatever the name was) where they followed the evil Kirk back home. I busted out laughing at my own comments come to life! And I loved it!! |
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Post by steven on Jun 16, 2020 8:37:01 GMT -7
There's mention in the SF Intelligence Manual of a Terran Intelligence Agency (TIA) that doesn't play well with SF Intelligence. So there is some rivalry. And there are some Andorian intelligence assets that report only to the Andorian government.
It's also important to note that this also means the member worlds are allowed to keep some measure of internal defense separate from the Federation and Starfleet. I guess the best way to think about it would be the relationship between a State Defense Force (not the National Guard) and the regular/reserve/NG units that answer to Washington, DC. Obviously the NG complicates the situation, but the point remains.
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