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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 14, 2019 23:38:54 GMT -7
“What if” scenarios
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 14, 2019 23:44:45 GMT -7
So, here’s the idea... what if: Nimoy had gone with Romulans in ST III: SFS? Do you think they would still have ST VI: TUC about the Klingons? Or would the Romulans have been a better choice?
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Post by tinker on Aug 15, 2019 4:58:20 GMT -7
I felt that neither was a possible choice or should have been. The Klingons because of their incessant aggressiveness and need for war. They were always supposed to represent the darker side of human nature - cunning and greedy. The Romulans I always felt were supposed to be a tragic anti-hero. Honorable with similar morals and values - but destined to always be in conflict with the Federation due to their beliefs in destiny.
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Post by brickwall on Aug 15, 2019 17:59:54 GMT -7
I felt that neither was a possible choice or should have been. The Klingons because of their incessant aggressiveness and need for war. They were always supposed to represent the darker side of human nature - cunning and greedy. The Romulans I always felt were supposed to be a tragic anti-hero. Honorable with similar morals and values - but destined to always be in conflict with the Federation due to their beliefs in destiny.In the Original Series, this was shown in the episode "Balance Of Terror". The Romulan commander told Kirk before he blew up his ship (just going by memory here): "We are of a kind, you and I. In another reality, I could have called you 'friend'."
And in the episode where Kirk steals a cloaking device, the female Romulan commander treated Spock as a potential lover. Not as an "enemy alien".
It seems when the Next Generation and beyond came along, the Romulans were then portrayed as devious and double-minded. Along with having those Klingon-like ridges on their foreheads.
I guess it's another reason I like the Original Series better than the Next Generation and beyond.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 15, 2019 18:32:05 GMT -7
Remember too that the Romulan Commander said something about he and the Centurion being a “dying breed” that relished honor but the new generation, or “next generation” was all about the glory. That could have been the bridge to the “new” Romulans. And given them the excuse for dropping out for 40-50 earth years. And, with minor script adjustments, you could still do TUC about the Klingons. And introducing a new Klingon BoP that could fire while cloaked being developed by the Klingons. The Roms couldn’t be all THAT honorable, I mean, they did develop a cloaking device. How much more devious can you get?
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Post by starcruiser on Aug 15, 2019 21:02:02 GMT -7
So, here’s the idea... what if: Nimoy had gone with Romulans in ST III: SFS? Do you think they would still have ST VI: TUC about the Klingons? Or would the Romulans have been a better choice? The original script for ST3 was supposed to involve the Romulans but, the producers thought the Klingons were more interesting so... In another version of the script, Kruge was supposedly shown stealing the Bird of Prey, thereby explaining why it was called that and looked like something the Romulans would build.
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Post by tinker on Aug 16, 2019 5:07:34 GMT -7
It seems when the Next Generation and beyond came along, the Romulans were then portrayed as devious and double-minded. Along with having those Klingon-like ridges on their foreheads. Yes, with the Klngons as the new alies of the Federation, TNG writers turned rather unimaginatively to the Romulans as the new "meanie" against the Federation - even growing the prerequisite neanderthal brow in the process. Pathetic. Remember too that the Romulan Commander said something about he and the Centurion being a “dying breed” that relished honor but the new generation, or “next generation” was all about the glory. That could have been the bridge to the “new” Romulans. And given them the excuse for dropping out for 40-50 earth years. That is an interesting point - good one. The concept of the cloaking device introduced in "Balance of Terror" was to "translate" (i.e. steal) the idea of a submarine in space. The story line paralleled a number of WWII movies like "the Enemy Below". That really was the only reason for that particular plot element. However, it has since become a staple weapon in the Romulan arsenal.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 16, 2019 5:33:16 GMT -7
Starcruiser: That’s where I got the idea for this question. And the stolen Rom ship would have been an ok alternative had they included it. Sadly, money talks
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 16, 2019 5:42:25 GMT -7
Tinker: Ya, I got that. Recognized it when I saw the original airing “back in the day!” (Although I can’t remember which day that was!) Lol. Still, the concept of a ship becoming invisible makes them very interesting to play and a challenge to go up against! I love it. Tie that in with a plasma torpedo that can knock the socks off of most ships of the time and you have something as noteworthy as the WW II subs. Churchill said the U-boat was the only thing he really feared!
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 16, 2019 5:49:54 GMT -7
Ancient Astronaut Theory: Do you suppose a Romulan scout came to ancient Earth and gave the “barbarians” a few ideas to get them going “in the right direction” and be an ally for them later? Or atleast a distraction for the Vulcans if they ever went looking for their long lost brothers?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2019 17:23:13 GMT -7
What if everything that happened after TOS (i.e. TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and STD) was just a projection by the Talosians?
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 19, 2019 4:13:36 GMT -7
What if everything that happened after TOS (i.e. TAS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT, and STD) was just a projection by the Talosians? Since I AM a TOS fan, that would work quite well for me! It sure would end a lot of the controversies around here.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 19, 2019 20:43:05 GMT -7
In the opening scenes of BOT Spock says Earth believed the Romulans to be warlike, cruel, treacherous. The Commander, in his dealings with Decius over sending the coded msg, was swift and harsh. The Centurion then warns him that Decius has friends with power. That speaks of all kinds of scull-duggery in the shadows! The Commander was tired of war. But, he was driven by duty and obedience more than any other thing. And doing one’s duty can end in some honorable or horrific ways.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2019 16:04:03 GMT -7
What if the Federation reactivated the Doomsday Machine and pointed it towards Borg space?
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Post by tinker on Aug 21, 2019 4:53:24 GMT -7
What if the Federation reactivated the Doomsday Machine and pointed it towards Borg space? While it proved formidable to the Federation, it may not be for the Borg. They could then assimilate its technology. Maybe not a good idea.
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 21, 2019 4:57:24 GMT -7
What if the Federation reactivated the Doomsday Machine and pointed it towards Borg space? I don't know about the modern novel continuity, but wasn't there was a novel in the 90s where it turns out the Doomsday Machines were actually anti Borg weapons?!
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Post by rarcher on Aug 21, 2019 13:15:50 GMT -7
What if the Federation reactivated the Doomsday Machine and pointed it towards Borg space? I don't know about the modern novel continuity, but wasn't there was a novel in the 90s where it turns out the Doomsday Machines were actually anti Borg weapons?! They were of a long gone ancient race in that novel that were wiped out by themselves and just happened to be useful against the borg by the person using it
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 22, 2019 7:18:59 GMT -7
Sooo many arguments against the Doomsday Machine reactivation. How much is left after the matter/antimatter explosion blew it’s guts out as from a huge shotgun? Is there any way to control it once activated? (Apparently the original designers couldn’t find one or they would still be around!) And how would the use of such a weapon fit into the Prime Directive? How many planets between here and there? How many species? How many trillions of lives?
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Post by krebizfan on Aug 22, 2019 10:32:37 GMT -7
I would expect that the wrecked Doomsday Machine would have teams analyzing it to see how it was built and what command facilities were available. Even if there was a special code that would turn it off, the only ones knowing the code have been dead for centuries and any external receiver may have been shot off. Flying into the central maw to broadcast the shut down message would be quite risky and might result in the ship being destroyed before the Doomsday Machine even notices.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 23, 2019 10:24:26 GMT -7
I still don’t believe there would be enough internal structure left to examine. The power of a starship exploding, especially within an enclosed area (with walls even phasers couldn’t scratch) would blow almost all loose material out into space at a high velocity. And most of the guts of that thing, I think, would be vaporized or broken/torn loose and ejected. From what I’ve read, these ships, when they explode, make nukes look like firecrackers! I vaguely remember a reference to an explosion as big as a star going nova
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Post by krebizfan on Aug 29, 2019 21:15:59 GMT -7
The impulse engine explosive value (98.57 megaton IIRC) was about double the value often ascribed to a photon torpedo. Obviously, enough to shut down the matter conversion plant, the anti-proton beam, and the engine from the inside but not enough to vaporize the neutronium hull. Any voids between layers of hull might survive in decent shape. Even if not, discovering the location of these voids and any hatches to them would make alternative approaches to the machine possible.
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Post by tosfan1956 on Aug 30, 2019 4:55:20 GMT -7
What about the antimatter? The shuttle hardly made a dent but Connie shut it down. That’s got to be more than just impulse engines. Warp field generators may have been non-operative but the antimatter was still there. Anyway, your idea sounds like a good “dungeon crawl” module for the RPG side of the house. I used to love the problem solving modules in AD&D. “A mystery is but a truth yet to be discovered.” (Alindar Oaksong, elven ranger)
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Post by steven on Jun 16, 2020 8:41:14 GMT -7
Remember too that the Romulan Commander said something about he and the Centurion being a “dying breed” that relished honor but the new generation, or “next generation” was all about the glory. That could have been the bridge to the “new” Romulans. And given them the excuse for dropping out for 40-50 earth years. And, with minor script adjustments, you could still do TUC about the Klingons. And introducing a new Klingon BoP that could fire while cloaked being developed by the Klingons. The Roms couldn’t be all THAT honorable, I mean, they did develop a cloaking device. How much more devious can you get? Or it could have just been an old man griping about "kids these days".
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 16, 2020 10:03:11 GMT -7
What about the antimatter? The shuttle hardly made a dent but Connie shut it down. That’s got to be more than just impulse engines. Warp field generators may have been non-operative but the antimatter was still there. Anyway, your idea sounds like a good “dungeon crawl” module for the RPG side of the house. I used to love the problem solving modules in AD&D. “A mystery is but a truth yet to be discovered.” (Alindar Oaksong, elven ranger) FASA actually produced a RPG module called "A Doomsday Like Any Other" where there is the possibility of finding a control room void within the hull! I think I've mentioned this elsewhere, our RPG group actually came up against something better and at the same time, worse than that. A whole planet/moons system that CREATED Doomsday Machines! And it created machines slightly different in apprarence, so was from the other faction from the one that created the machine that faced off against the Constellation and the Enterprise!
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 16, 2020 10:05:11 GMT -7
Remember too that the Romulan Commander said something about he and the Centurion being a “dying breed” that relished honor but the new generation, or “next generation” was all about the glory. That could have been the bridge to the “new” Romulans. And given them the excuse for dropping out for 40-50 earth years. And, with minor script adjustments, you could still do TUC about the Klingons. And introducing a new Klingon BoP that could fire while cloaked being developed by the Klingons. The Roms couldn’t be all THAT honorable, I mean, they did develop a cloaking device. How much more devious can you get? Or it could have just been an old man griping about "kids these days". Hahaha! Love it! "Get that starship off our Neutral Zone!"
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