Distance and Warp speed issues.

[bazbaziah]

I've been working on and off for a long while on the galactic map used in the FASA mythos. I'm discounting anything next generation or TV series beyond TOS/TAS and upto STIV film wise here.
The maps are awful, not only are distances to known stars off by many many parsecs - Rigel is shown as being around 80 parsecs from earth when in reality its around 260pc away, Vulcan is some 12pc away on the map but at most 5pc in reality but the position of them relative to each other is also totally crazy in most cases. Furthermore the time taken to travel to them is also a very long way off?
For example the Kkingon source book p20 tells us that the early Kkingon warp engines were w3 capable at best and p27 that in 1/90 they enter service. Four years later during 1/94 they discover Delta Khinah II and they subjugate it.
The map on p10 tells us that DKII is some 60+ parsecs direct from Klinzhai, at best speed (warp 3 from above) it takes just over 44 days to cover one parsecs at warp 3 or 40*60 = 2640 days = 7.2 years, so how do they do it in 4?
My tired old mind aches thinking about this these days?

[steven]

I wouldn't look too much into it. FASA was notorious for those kinds of mistakes. Look at BattleTech for examples of stuff not making sense if you start thinking about it. It even ended up coining the term of FASAnomics because numbers of populations, economics, force strength, distances, etc., just not adding up (literally and figuratively). Just accept that DKII was conquered in 1/94 and don't worry about distances and warp speed, or just handwavium the problems away.

[jackphoton]

Have a look around for the Ballantine Star Trek Maps, (which Fantasimulations also suggested to look for back in 1983).

Included in that package folder is a booklet on Navigation. In it they posit two factors that affect speed, local gravity and hydrogen density. Too much, too little, slows you down/ speeds you up like having a tail/head wind. I re-wrote their ideas into a game formula and expounded on how the navigator and helm would be making several course corrections over time and how their success failure can also add, subtract from the travel time, by trimming here and opening up there. All that is in my "Book2: Piece of the Action" detailing revised fasa game mechanics.

Available from the Internet Archive for preview/download.
Page 143-146:
archive.org/details/b-02-pieceofthe-action-med-q-230101/page/142/mode/2up

[trynda1701]

In my FASA games in the 80s, and in my ship descriptions here on the forum more recently, I used the Star Trek Maps. Rigel for instance, is more accurately positioned distance wise on them.

If it's a system mentioned on screen, I use the Maps position. If it's a FASA creation, I roughly estimate where it would be on the Maps if the two Federation space borders were the same size to position them.

You can still fit the Triangle in between where the Klingon disputed border ends and the Romulan Neutral Zone crosses into the Federation border. More recent fan creations here on the forum can also still be in their relative positions, just the scales will be different.

The "chi" factor in the Maps booklet was clearly an attempt to reconcile the 'speed of plot' that TOS used, or where they specifically mention a distance and time at a specific Warp speed. One such example being in the episode "That Which Survives", where the Enterprise has been thrown 990.7 light years from the Kalandan outpost planet, starts to return at Warp 8, and a short time later, a travel time of about 11.5 hours is given. This is clearly not possible if you use the 'classic' Warp Factor cubed gives you the multiples of the speed of light the ship is travelling at.

[jackphoton]

Yeah, The Metrons throw 1701 "500 parsecs from where they are. Where they were. I mean... Don't worry about it Mr. Sulu and get us back there, Warp 1. A thousand years captain? Well that gives us a little time."

Good thing as 500 parsecs at w1 with a good breeze at their backs is going to be 1,500 years at best.  At least Sulu was correct is saying it threw them clear across the galaxy (i.e. Federation).

Watching Gamesters the other day, I pulled out the warp charts. IIIRC that was a mere 11ly. Spock starts off slow , but by the end they are doing warp 7 "and maybe just a wee bit more" and that would get them to triskelion in a couple weeks -which was not too unreasonable.

The Tholians has 1701 thrown a couple parsecs, not too bad. The only time they really got in 'trouble' was when the writers threw those numbers around inside the show. Between shows, no prob. Distance is irrelevant. But throw an ignorant number around like 900 light years and all of a sudden...

Towards the end of TNG started getting to me with Picard popping between Earth and Klinzhai far too quickly. For the little I saw of Enterprise, they did the same thing in the first episode iirc. As if an Empire's homeworld is barely as far away as Alpha Cent. I haven't watched that show since it premiered. From Tucker bumping the ship's hull to travel times, that moron floating in the one zero g spot of the ship to Archer himself and so much more. Ugh. Not for me.

And all that is why in the Jack Photon revamp I've made a point of personal growth notes on the character sheets, skills and an Attribute to advance.

In this way, take a supporting NPC crew of any size, say 5-20 personnel, look at all the skills they want to advance, sort them into columns and during those travel times, a GM can see who is taking what class compared to which PC and a small role play encounter can occur.

I also allow Atrtibutes to increase, but it's very difficult (as are the skills the higher they get). Attributes is a once a year roll. So, are a few folks in the gym working their stamina, cardio or just lifting? Are a few taking elocution lessons to bump that CHA? Are they in the Argument Clinic beefing up their Cool with the Abuse Counselor? (Stupid git!) Maybe their playing the "Dagger and hand" game from Aliens. (Maybe that last one is more of a Mirror, Mirror past time )