steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 21, 2020 17:03:34 GMT -7
steve Interesting take on the Klingons. I know in the John Ford novel "The Final Reflection", they had servitors, including Vulcans who had been subjected to surgery so their telepathic powers were inhibited. By the way, do your Klingons only look like the TV Klingons, or do the ridged variety appear as well? I think that FASA had the best solution: Imperial Klingons were the norm and then there were Romulan-Klingons & Human-Klingon hybrids. Since I was a kid growing up with the "ridged" Klingons, those always stuck with me as the 'real' Klingons. I didn't try to reconcile "Well, in TOS, they didn't have ridges!" For my universe, I used FASA's explanation as it worked and worked well. I will say that, in my universe, hybrid Klingons of any sort are fairly not common as, by the time the TOS era begins, there's only been maybe a few generations for them to emerge. Klingon-Romulans ("Klingulans"?) are a bit more common but you'd hardly ever see one. Klingon-Humans ("Klimans"?) are even less common and border on outright rare. Klingon-Orions ("Klinorions"?) are, oddly enough, the most common hybrid of all as Klingon women tend to "run away with the circus" for it gives them more social progress. The Klingons find this mildly irritating but fall back on the opinion that, since the women ran away, they weren't really philosophically 'real' Klingons to begin with and good riddance to them; We'll keep the 'real' Klingon women, thank you very much. Klingon-Vulcans? Ha ha, but no. You'd find a crowd of Klingons dancing enthusiastically in a conga line before seeing one of those. The Gorn are just not compatible and any non-Gorn species that wants to mate with a Gorn should probably seek out professional help with those thoughts. And things like Human-Romulans and Romulan-Orions... They certainly exist but not in any sort of credible numbers. You're not going to have one as a co-worker or as a fifth-cousin, second removed. They're novelties and you could fit the entirety of all of these (Klingon, Romulan, Human, etc.) hybrids in a modest modern-day city and that's throughout how many thousands of solar systems? Let's say that there's 20 trillion people in the known alt universe; There's maybe a million hybrids in total. And a majority of them are scattered throughout the Triangle or in one of the hundreds of thousands of Orion ships. On the Klingon side, it's probably a Klingon female mating with a male of the other species. Klingon females are not well regarded in Klingon society; In a 'might makes right' society, females don't have a lot of might so they don't have a lot of rights. They are not slaves but they are most definitely not social equals. For a Klingon male to mate with a non-Klingon, it's just not worth their while. Mating is a status symbol for male Klingons; What's the point of mating with a non-Klingon? You're not proving anything. You're not increasing your social status or proving how much more manly you are. Furthermore, you're producing a diluted Klingon as a result and potentially insulting your family and clan and whomever. Hybrids also have less medical treatment options because of their slightly different biology. If you're a hybrid, you probably reside in the Triangle (Or part of an Orion caravan) and are closely connected to either Orion-based trade or are part of the mostly moribund effort at peace amongst the major powers. My universe had "Peace planets" (just like the canon ST stuff) where they tried to have colonies together to foster mutual understanding and respect but these efforts are usually poorly funded, poorly implemented and fall apart to some degree within 20 some-odd years. The Romulans don't trust anyone and send only the bottom-tier of anyone and those people certainly know it; The Feds try to make a good show of it but know that no one else's heart is into it; The Klingons think that it's all a big joke and send people who have absolutely no sway in Klingon politics there; The Orion send only those who enjoy living on planets and, as we all know in my alt universe, the divide between vessel-goers and planet residents is stark in many ways; And the Gorn just don't understand what the big deal is. The Vulcans won't even touch the subject since The Romulans will bail the moment the Vulcans are even brought into the conversation. Admittedly, there are people involved in these projects who really do try and make things work out. There's an intergalactic standards board, mostly separate from the peace planets, that has made some limited progress in setting interplanetary standards across the civilizations. On peace planet projects, you'll always find earnest individuals on all sides willing to have an honest go of it but these people are hardly ever in charge of anything substantial. Without insulting anyone, it's sort of like "Esperantists": They're well meaning but they're never going to achieve their goal of everyone speaking Esperanto and achieving world peace. But everyone is nice to them and smiles and nods when they talk about their lofty goals and slightly chuckles (and also slightly envies) at their idealism. Anyway, comments always welcome. Thanks for reading. More later.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 22, 2020 6:37:50 GMT -7
Does that mean that in your universe, the hybrids are all from natural copulation? I took it that the Fusions in original FASA depended fully on genetic manipulation to exist.
Also, if they are quite limited in number in your universe, would you have them on fully Fusion crewed ships as shown in the TV show?
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 22, 2020 15:46:30 GMT -7
Truth be told, recollecting all of this from 30 some-odd years prior, I am sure that I'm mashing together some bits that shouldn't exist and eliminating those that might of.
The problem with genetic engineering and "over-sciencing" Star Trek is that, in short order, you come out with something that would be completely different from Star Trek. ST was a product of it's time and didn't take into account certain realities. For instance, how many sci-fi stories completely botched the whole reality of "Everyone would be running around with cellphones / smartphones by 2010-2015"? At the other end of the spectrum, things like teleporters and Faster-Than-Light travel are still quite magical even in the year 2020 (although Faster-Than-Light communication might become reality a lot sooner than we think...!).
I once tried, separately, to create a "scientific" Star Trek as a writing assignment and found that I just couldn't unless I completely scrapped the entire ST premise and started from scratch.
Therefore, I make do with the franchise that I have in front of me. From a pragmatic perspective, hybrids just didn't move the needle much to put a lot of effort into them. Is there genetic engineering in ST? Absolutely ("Paging a Mr. Singh, a Mr. Khan Noonien Singh"). But, at the same time, in my alt universe, there just hasn't been enough time for them to develop into a sizeable hybrid population. Also, this isn't like on Earth where someone from Asia and someone from Australia bump into each other and nine months later...!
I envision that cross-breeding different species didn't give anyone the results that they desired and so governmental-level efforts at that effort dwindled out at the first signs that it wasn't the bonanza that anyone was looking for in terms of a physical or psychological advantage. Therefore, after a brief burst of government interest, hybrids are mostly a "Hey! What are you doing this Friday night?" sort of endeavor.
Admittedly, these last few entries have been somewhat disjointed but so was my alt universe, something that was stitched together from "Hey! That's cool! I'll add that!" and "Wouldn't it be neat if this happened?"
Anyway, comments always welcome. Thanks for reading. More later.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 22, 2020 16:04:44 GMT -7
No problem about the memory problem, it's still interesting to hear your thoughts and different ideas from your universe. As for your idea about trying to create a "scientific" Star Trek, I know what you mean. I've seen sites on the internet talking about how all the real science would probably get rid of all the 'rule of cool' stuff in Trek. One example talks about how, yes, it's dramatic if Kirk combat rolls out of the way of an energy beam, freezes to point his own phaser and fires back, while the red shirt takes the hit and disappears! The bad bit is the other red shirts should take damage from the flash of superheated water vapour as their colleague is being vapourized! I've also seen an attempt to try and make a Star Trek that would be more scientific on the RPG.NET forums, summarised as "Star Trek - with hats"! That wasn't you, was it steve ?
|
|
|
Post by brickwall on Jun 22, 2020 23:24:21 GMT -7
Hmmmm.......
Seems similar to the tribes of Gaul during the time Julius Caesar began his invasion two millennia ago. The tribes were constantly fighting each other as well as the Germanic barbarians trying to push them around. Or even the British tribes when Caesar did his first invasion of England.
Very interesting comparison. I look forward to your expansion of this version of Trek.
And please forgive my nudge-nudge, but I'd appreciate your view of the Kephan Unity so far. There is always need for improvement and I'd like to know your perspective. Many thanks in advance. Having read your thread, it seemed very detailed. Your worldbuilding is thorough. I will try to be as constructive as possible with my views: 1). WHAT, exactly, is the philosophy of the Kephan Unity? It may be clear in your thoughts but not necessarily that of your readers. In your first post, you should state an overview of what, exactly, the Kephan Unity is. I gleaned that they are libertarian in nature (based upon their anti-UN stance). Are they? Every civilization is complex but they can also be somewhat simplified: Vulcans are intellectuals; The Federation is Democratic; The Klingons violent & war-like; Romulans are conniving and cunning, etc. 2). As the saying goes, if you want people to like you, be likeable. In my own alternate universe, I strove to make sure that each civilization had a REASON for doing what they did. The Romulans, for instance, are known for cunning and guile. However, according to them, they are as such because their people have been attacked so often that they feel this is the only way to protect themselves (first from the Hunnarians, then from the Vulcans, then from the Klingons). Even the Klingons (who are probably the closest for being the "black hat" of the civilizations), in my alt universe, have the philosophy of, "What's the point of being right if someone wrong is stronger than you and can kill you? That's why might makes right!" Whether or not you meant it, you present the Kephan as oppositional. For instance... *** Unlike the rest of it's neighbors, however, it harbored one long-term goal for the Star Navy - "to liberate Occupied Earth from it's Globalist seducers and enslavers" *** But tell us how you really feel? (Or, as one of my political science professors liked to sometimes say, "But besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?") A lot of readers are going to come in liking the Federation and thinking that they're an OK group of guys. So, explain to the readers what the Kephan perspective is as to what the Federation has done to deserve this critique. I think that would go a long way in helping out this civilization. 3). Gilbert Keith Chesterton is a real person, according to the Internet Gods. However, it's unclear how exactly he fits into the Kephan Unity's worldviews. From my uneducated perspective, he is a... Christian philosopher? There wasn't a good read as to whether he was libertarian or capitalist or objectivist... Perhaps you could clarify what his views were that co-founded the Kephan Unity. 4). I have no problem with the Kephan Unity symbol. If you have not done so already, invest some time in vexillology (the study of flags). An all- or mostly-white flag might be misconstrued as a sign of surrender in the heat of combat. Even the American Confederacy altered their national flag (a mostly white flag) late in the civil war (the battle standard, "Stars & Bars," was not their national flag but a battle flag) to have a red stripe at the end to avoid such misunderstandings. Although some flags do not have one, consider having something in the canton of the flag so that when the flag is not flying in the wind, the flag can still be visibly identified as Kephan. Also, I'm sure that it hasn't escaped the more humorous that someone is eventually going to parody the flag by replacing the upwards index finger with the middle finger instead. Fair warning. Or, even more rudely, elongating the upper circle into an oval and shrinking the bottom circles to make a rather... Unfortunately inappropriate shape. I'm sure the Federation opponents have already thought of that one. In the end, it's always nice to read about another civilization. You've certainly put in considerable effort with detail on starship classes. I look forward to more entries. Thank you. Hi Steve. I’ll do my best to answer your questions here on the Unity. 1) The founding philosophy of the Unity is called Distributism. It is an alternative to Capitalism, Socialism, Communism and Fascism. It was co-founded by Hilaire Belloc and Gilbert Keith Chesterton and developed by others over the decades. The roots of it came from Traditional Catholic social teaching and even further back to the writings of Aristotle. As noted by writer David W. Cooney, Distributism is “an alternate system that subordinates economics and government to ethics and subsidiarity because they exist serve the common good”.Distributism "does not advocate government 'confiscation and redistribution' of wealth, which many assume based on the name alone. The name refers to the idea that justice and power in both the economic and political realms should be distributed throughout society." Distributism, also known as Distributivism, "has been around as a named and distinct system for over 100 years, but remains relatively unknown because it is ignored by professional and academic economists". "The basic premise of distributism is that society as a whole is better off if the means of production are privately owned by a lot of people who do the work rather than owned by a small percentage of the people. Independent, locally owned small businesses and farms are the bedrock of a strong and stable economy. Large businesses would best benefit the larger community if they were cooperatives. Local, cooperatively owned financial institutions like credit unions serve communities better than large corporate banking institutions.""Distributism also advocates the devolution of government authority to the local community over the current trend of increasing the power and scope of centralized government."Mr. Cooney goes further into what it is and isn’t in his booklet “Distributism Basics: An Explanation”. The link to it is below: practicaldistributism.blogspot.com/p/basics.html
2) The poster “Gorn” asked me a similar question to yours three years ago this month. (BTW, I had to scratch my head there when thinking about that. Man, does time fly fast!) Anyway, here was my answer:
As far as the other Galactic Powers are concerned, they aren’t interested in conquering or enslaving them. The Klingons call them “The Insane Ones”. The Romulans call them the “Nest of the Crazies”. The Orions are their oldest trading partner but can get caught unawares by them. The Gorns and Tholians see them as too far away to take notice of. The Triangle statelets – well, it depends on the situation at hand.
3) Chesterton, as mentioned, was the co-founder of Distributism. He was also a philosopher, author, biographer, art critic, epic poet writer, journalist, Catholic convert, debator. He is most famous as the inventor of the Father Brown series of detective fiction stories. (Note: the original TV series of Father Brown stories with Kenneth More in the lead role I highly recommend. The ‘updated’ version from the BBC I wouldn’t.) Best place to learn more about him is the The Society of Gilbert Keith Chesterton. Their weblink is below: www.chesterton.org/And here is a brief article introducing this giant of the early 20th Century to people: www.chesterton.org/category/discover-chesterton/The other major influence on the Unity is the Russian author, historian and dissident Alexander Solzhenitsyn. He is most well known for his earliest work “One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovich” and his multi-volume masterpiece “The Gulag Archipelago”. The Facebook group “The Solzhenitsyn Society” has many of his quotes available. Permit me to refer you to them for the quotes. By the way, he read many of the works of Chesterton when he was in exile with his family in Vermont. This was truly a case of great minds thinking alike. His work “Rebuilding Russia” was a great development of Distributist thought from his reading Chesterton. Please permit me to recommend the biography “Solzhenitsyn: A Soul In Exile” by Joseph Pearce. The book was based on exclusive, personal interviews with the great man, which was rare indeed. Below is the Amazon link to his book: www.amazon.com/Solzhenitsyn-Joseph-Pearce-ebook/dp/B004WPIXQM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1F9FOHMLYLLLN&dchild=1&keywords=solzhenitsyn+a+soul+in+exile&qid=1592892800&s=books&sprefix=solzhenitsyn+%2Cstripbooks%2C181&sr=1-1
4) Excellent observation about the Unity’s National Flag. When I was a little tyke, I had a fascination with flags and their symbolism. (Full disclosure: I turned 57 this month.) So then in the Unity timeline I’m still working on, that banner could be re-designated as the First Flag and an improved version as the Second Flag. Perhaps a golden rectangle around the edges, wide enough to be seen. Always possibilities for improvement here.
Steve, thank you so very much for your questions. Your insights will help in further development of the Kephans and their backstories. Onward and upward!
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 23, 2020 13:28:16 GMT -7
No problem about the memory problem, it's still interesting to hear your thoughts and different ideas from your universe. As for your idea about trying to create a "scientific" Star Trek, I know what you mean. I've seen sites on the internet talking about how all the real science would probably get rid of all the 'rule of cool' stuff in Trek. One example talks about how, yes, it's dramatic if Kirk combat rolls out of the way of an energy beam, freezes to point his own phaser and fires back, while the red shirt takes the hit and disappears! The bad bit is the other red shirts should take damage from the flash of superheated water vapour as their colleague is being vapourized! I've also seen an attempt to try and make a Star Trek that would be more scientific on the RPG.NET forums, summarised as "Star Trek - with hats"! That wasn't you, was it steve ? Nope. Not me. I keep meaning to go back to the timeline but there's really not much more than "Klingons find the Feds; Feds & Klingons fight; Feds win (much to the Klingons' shock) after initially getting their noses bloodied; Klingons look over at the Romulans and go, 'Really?' when they realize that they were duped into traipsing into Fed territory. Romulans get a bird-eating grin until the Klingons mount a very short-lived war with the Romulans until they realize that the Romulans used the distraction to steal Klingon tech (essentially upgrading their shields and weaponry) and spy on the Vulcans, thereby gaining other tech as well. The Feds also sort of realize the Romulan ruse and are none too happy with it until they come up with a plan of their own to be sneaky; Meanwhile, in Klingon land, the loss to the Feds creates a shockwave that results in a mini-civil war because there's now a crisis of conscience because 'might makes right' isn't working and that's their entire brand; the Feds use the Orions as cover to infiltrate Romulan space (essentially creating a fake Orion caravan) and stealing a cloaking device and completely getting away with it without the Romulans even knowing about it; Meanwhile, the Gorn independently discover the Feds and they set up a peace treaty and the Feds discover that the Gorn found the Romulans previously and this nearly botches the Gorn-Fed peace treaty because the Romulans talked smack about the Feds before the Gorn found them but they still get a peace treaty because the Gorn don't do fake news but they don't like the Vulcans for a mysterious reason and..." OK. So there's a bit more to the story but, really, everyone is at a tense standoff at the moment and that's where I like having my universe. Romulans are sneaky and paranoid, Klingons are violent, the Feds are trying to be nice to everyone and learning that being nice isn't translating to progress, the Orions are trying to bleed everyone dry financially without looking like they're bleeding everyone dry financially, the Gorn are trudging along at their own pace with everyone snickering at them but they shouldn't because even a slow but steady adversary makes progress... Yep. That's kind of where I left the timeline. And, of course, all sorts of possibilities branch out from there. Do the Romulans find the Hunnarians? Who are the master race that enslaved the Gorn? Will the Orion ever reveal what's outside of known space? Will the Klingons ever learn how to not punch someone and how exactly did they get that way to begin with...? Comments always welcome. Thanks for reading. More later? Possibly.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 23, 2020 13:37:44 GMT -7
Hope you have a little writeup concentrating on the Gorn like you've done for the other Empires. Plus, after that, I think I'd like to see your timeline to get a sense of when it happened and over how long, compared to the original TOS timeline, as well as the FASA interpretation of it. Even if it's just that the paragraph above with dates. So, if your universe is sitting at about the equivalent of season 3 of Trek, or during the movies timeframe, or whenever, how long ago did the Vulcans leave Romulan space, arrive in Federation space, etc.
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 23, 2020 13:50:00 GMT -7
Hi Steve. I’ll do my best to answer your questions here on the Unity. 1) The founding philosophy of the Unity is called Distributism. It is an alternative to Capitalism, Socialism, Communism and Fascism. It was co-founded by Hilaire Belloc and Gilbert Keith Chesterton and developed by others over the decades. The roots of it came from Traditional Catholic social teaching and even further back to the writings of Aristotle. As noted by writer David W. Cooney, Distributism is “an alternate system that subordinates economics and government to ethics and subsidiarity because they exist serve the common good”.Distributism "does not advocate government 'confiscation and redistribution' of wealth, which many assume based on the name alone. The name refers to the idea that justice and power in both the economic and political realms should be distributed throughout society." Distributism, also known as Distributivism, "has been around as a named and distinct system for over 100 years, but remains relatively unknown because it is ignored by professional and academic economists". "The basic premise of distributism is that society as a whole is better off if the means of production are privately owned by a lot of people who do the work rather than owned by a small percentage of the people. Independent, locally owned small businesses and farms are the bedrock of a strong and stable economy. Large businesses would best benefit the larger community if they were cooperatives. Local, cooperatively owned financial institutions like credit unions serve communities better than large corporate banking institutions.""Distributism also advocates the devolution of government authority to the local community over the current trend of increasing the power and scope of centralized government."Mr. Cooney goes further into what it is and isn’t in his booklet “Distributism Basics: An Explanation”. The link to it is below: practicaldistributism.blogspot.com/p/basics.html
2) The poster “Gorn” asked me a similar question to yours three years ago this month. (BTW, I had to scratch my head there when thinking about that. Man, does time fly fast!) Anyway, here was my answer:
As far as the other Galactic Powers are concerned, they aren’t interested in conquering or enslaving them. The Klingons call them “The Insane Ones”. The Romulans call them the “Nest of the Crazies”. The Orions are their oldest trading partner but can get caught unawares by them. The Gorns and Tholians see them as too far away to take notice of. The Triangle statelets – well, it depends on the situation at hand.
3) Chesterton, as mentioned, was the co-founder of Distributism. He was also a philosopher, author, biographer, art critic, epic poet writer, journalist, Catholic convert, debator. He is most famous as the inventor of the Father Brown series of detective fiction stories. (Note: the original TV series of Father Brown stories with Kenneth More in the lead role I highly recommend. The ‘updated’ version from the BBC I wouldn’t.) Best place to learn more about him is the The Society of Gilbert Keith Chesterton. Their weblink is below: www.chesterton.org/And here is a brief article introducing this giant of the early 20th Century to people: www.chesterton.org/category/discover-chesterton/The other major influence on the Unity is the Russian author, historian and dissident Alexander Solzhenitsyn. He is most well known for his earliest work “One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovich” and his multi-volume masterpiece “The Gulag Archipelago”. The Facebook group “The Solzhenitsyn Society” has many of his quotes available. Permit me to refer you to them for the quotes. By the way, he read many of the works of Chesterton when he was in exile with his family in Vermont. This was truly a case of great minds thinking alike. His work “Rebuilding Russia” was a great development of Distributist thought from his reading Chesterton. Please permit me to recommend the biography “Solzhenitsyn: A Soul In Exile” by Joseph Pearce. The book was based on exclusive, personal interviews with the great man, which was rare indeed. Below is the Amazon link to his book: www.amazon.com/Solzhenitsyn-Joseph-Pearce-ebook/dp/B004WPIXQM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1F9FOHMLYLLLN&dchild=1&keywords=solzhenitsyn+a+soul+in+exile&qid=1592892800&s=books&sprefix=solzhenitsyn+%2Cstripbooks%2C181&sr=1-1
4) Excellent observation about the Unity’s National Flag. When I was a little tyke, I had a fascination with flags and their symbolism. (Full disclosure: I turned 57 this month.) So then in the Unity timeline I’m still working on, that banner could be re-designated as the First Flag and an improved version as the Second Flag. Perhaps a golden rectangle around the edges, wide enough to be seen. Always possibilities for improvement here.
Steve, thank you so very much for your questions. Your insights will help in further development of the Kephans and their backstories. Onward and upward!
Probably my first impression for these answers are: If you want your civilization to be a "good guy" civilization (and I'm guessing that you do), you'll probably want to advocate what Distributism is without really giving it a name. Try talking in the voice of an advocate or a missionary; You're an alternative to the Federation. Without knowing anything about Distributism, another piece of advice would be to alleviate concerns. How is this different from.... Objectivism? Communism? Libertarianism? The more that someone advocates about something (even if it something genuinely good, such as brushing your teeth), the more "cult-ish" someone will appear and the more put off people will be by the idea. Therefore, the civilization would need to advocate by "doing" more than preaching. If you look back at history, groups that want to break away from society really do try to break away geographically: The Mormons went into the desert and Hollywood is where it is because it was so far away from Thomas Edison's lawyers that, when people broke his patents, it made it very difficult to sue them (or even know that they were broken to begin with). I'm almost thinking that you could have your own alt universe where the Federation is at the center and all of these other systems of government branch away and have their hand at forming their own empires of sorts, sort of replacing Klingons with Communists and Romulans with Imperialists and the Kephan Unity represents Distributism and someone else represents Socialism, Objectivism, Fascism, etc. so forth. It would almost be a sort of "hard science Star Trek." Out of complete coincidence, I saw on a website yesterday a quote from GK Chesterton: "Anything worth doing is worth doing badly," which I thought was amusing but more true than not. At any rate, the only other immediate impression is that you could have variations on your flag to represent different elements of the society. Instead of an arm with a finger pointing upwards, the military branch would get rid of the arm and have a star in each of the circles. The intelligence division could eliminate some portions of the structure to make it look like an eye, with a pupil in the center, etc. so forth. That way, the main flag is always referenced but altered as a means of respect.
|
|
|
Post by brickwall on Jun 24, 2020 5:56:31 GMT -7
Hi Steve. I’ll do my best to answer your questions here on the Unity. 1) The founding philosophy of the Unity is called Distributism. It is an alternative to Capitalism, Socialism, Communism and Fascism. It was co-founded by Hilaire Belloc and Gilbert Keith Chesterton and developed by others over the decades. The roots of it came from Traditional Catholic social teaching and even further back to the writings of Aristotle. As noted by writer David W. Cooney, Distributism is “an alternate system that subordinates economics and government to ethics and subsidiarity because they exist serve the common good”.Distributism "does not advocate government 'confiscation and redistribution' of wealth, which many assume based on the name alone. The name refers to the idea that justice and power in both the economic and political realms should be distributed throughout society." Distributism, also known as Distributivism, "has been around as a named and distinct system for over 100 years, but remains relatively unknown because it is ignored by professional and academic economists". "The basic premise of distributism is that society as a whole is better off if the means of production are privately owned by a lot of people who do the work rather than owned by a small percentage of the people. Independent, locally owned small businesses and farms are the bedrock of a strong and stable economy. Large businesses would best benefit the larger community if they were cooperatives. Local, cooperatively owned financial institutions like credit unions serve communities better than large corporate banking institutions.""Distributism also advocates the devolution of government authority to the local community over the current trend of increasing the power and scope of centralized government."Mr. Cooney goes further into what it is and isn’t in his booklet “Distributism Basics: An Explanation”. The link to it is below: practicaldistributism.blogspot.com/p/basics.html
2) The poster “Gorn” asked me a similar question to yours three years ago this month. (BTW, I had to scratch my head there when thinking about that. Man, does time fly fast!) Anyway, here was my answer:
As far as the other Galactic Powers are concerned, they aren’t interested in conquering or enslaving them. The Klingons call them “The Insane Ones”. The Romulans call them the “Nest of the Crazies”. The Orions are their oldest trading partner but can get caught unawares by them. The Gorns and Tholians see them as too far away to take notice of. The Triangle statelets – well, it depends on the situation at hand.
3) Chesterton, as mentioned, was the co-founder of Distributism. He was also a philosopher, author, biographer, art critic, epic poet writer, journalist, Catholic convert, debator. He is most famous as the inventor of the Father Brown series of detective fiction stories. (Note: the original TV series of Father Brown stories with Kenneth More in the lead role I highly recommend. The ‘updated’ version from the BBC I wouldn’t.) Best place to learn more about him is the The Society of Gilbert Keith Chesterton. Their weblink is below: www.chesterton.org/And here is a brief article introducing this giant of the early 20th Century to people: www.chesterton.org/category/discover-chesterton/The other major influence on the Unity is the Russian author, historian and dissident Alexander Solzhenitsyn. He is most well known for his earliest work “One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovich” and his multi-volume masterpiece “The Gulag Archipelago”. The Facebook group “The Solzhenitsyn Society” has many of his quotes available. Permit me to refer you to them for the quotes. By the way, he read many of the works of Chesterton when he was in exile with his family in Vermont. This was truly a case of great minds thinking alike. His work “Rebuilding Russia” was a great development of Distributist thought from his reading Chesterton. Please permit me to recommend the biography “Solzhenitsyn: A Soul In Exile” by Joseph Pearce. The book was based on exclusive, personal interviews with the great man, which was rare indeed. Below is the Amazon link to his book: www.amazon.com/Solzhenitsyn-Joseph-Pearce-ebook/dp/B004WPIXQM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1F9FOHMLYLLLN&dchild=1&keywords=solzhenitsyn+a+soul+in+exile&qid=1592892800&s=books&sprefix=solzhenitsyn+%2Cstripbooks%2C181&sr=1-1
4) Excellent observation about the Unity’s National Flag. When I was a little tyke, I had a fascination with flags and their symbolism. (Full disclosure: I turned 57 this month.) So then in the Unity timeline I’m still working on, that banner could be re-designated as the First Flag and an improved version as the Second Flag. Perhaps a golden rectangle around the edges, wide enough to be seen. Always possibilities for improvement here.
Steve, thank you so very much for your questions. Your insights will help in further development of the Kephans and their backstories. Onward and upward!
Probably my first impression for these answers are: If you want your civilization to be a "good guy" civilization (and I'm guessing that you do), you'll probably want to advocate what Distributism is without really giving it a name. Try talking in the voice of an advocate or a missionary; You're an alternative to the Federation. Without knowing anything about Distributism, another piece of advice would be to alleviate concerns. How is this different from.... Objectivism? Communism? Libertarianism? The more that someone advocates about something (even if it something genuinely good, such as brushing your teeth), the more "cultish" someone will appear and the more put off people will be by the idea. Therefore, the civilization would need to advocate by "doing" more than preaching. If you look back at history, groups that want to break away from society really do try to break away geographically: The Mormons went into the desert and Hollywood is where it is because it was so far away from Thomas Edison's lawyers that, when people broke his patents, it made it very difficult to sue them (or even know that they were broken to begin with). I'm almost thinking that you could have your own alt universe where the Federation is at the center and all of these other systems of government branch away and have their hand at forming their own empires of sorts, sort of replacing Klingons with Communists and Romulans with Imperialists and the Kephan Unity represents Distributism and someone else represents Socialism, Objectivism, Fascism, etc. so forth. It would almost be a sort of "hard science Star Trek." Out of complete coincidence, I saw on a website yesterday a quote from GK Chesterton: "Anything worth doing is worth doing badly," which I thought was amusing but more true than not. At any rate, the only other immediate impression is that you could have variations on your flag to represent different elements of the society. Instead of an arm with a finger pointing upwards, the military branch would get rid of the arm and have a star in each of the circles. The intelligence division could eliminate some portions of the structure to make it look like an eye, with a pupil in the center, etc. so forth. That way, the main flag is always referenced but altered as a means of respect. On the bolded part above, the next section I'm working on is something the Kephans did for the Klingons without their asking for it. Something that ties in to the movies "Wrath of Khan" and "The Search For Spock".
Also the Unity would take a more "missionary" attitude toward the other Galactic Powers. They'd certainly do so for the Gorns and Tholians due to both distance and species composition. They'd do so for the Orions regarding both trade relations and the "green slave women problem". They'd do so for the Triangle statelets, especially the newly-created IEC -- which they had a hand in creating. Later on, I'll be aiming for the Romulans.
The Federation, which the Unity refers to as "The Main Enemy", will be the big deal for them.
Oh, this just popped up in my screwball head. The other rarely mentioned Galactic Power is the First Federation, mentioned in the TOS episode "The Corbomite Maneuver". If memory serves, it was a small distance away from the Federation-Tholian border. The Unity would have a similar policy towards them as the Tholians and Gorns.
Finally, those are excellent suggestions on the National Flag variants. One for Colony and Commerce Command might have an old fashioned freighter on the sea. The Ministry of Justice would have the Scales of Justice in the middle. The Congressional Flag perhaps would sport crossed gavels. The Bureau of Sciences would have the old symbol for the atom in the center.
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 24, 2020 12:45:01 GMT -7
Let's talk Gorn. I've mentioned the Gorn here before so some of this is redundant but, hopefully, this will get people caught up in my alt universe Gorn civilization.
First and foremost, forget about the "Monster of the Week" Gorn from the TOS series. Out. The Gorn in my alt universe are still reptilian but about 4 feet tall and as wide as they are tall. They are stocky little fellas who don't speak much, when they do speak they speak in (mostly) mono-syllabic words and speak as though speech was just invented about ten years ago.
Yet these guys fly around in space ships that they've built and they've got a sophisticated little empire going on. To be fair, the Gorn don't really put a lot of emphasis on space ship tech; the Gorn's thing is bio-tech. They've got zero problem with genetic engineering or "human experiments" (in this case, using other Gorn in the same way humans use mice in medical experiments). As a result, the Gorn are surprisingly sturdy little fellows. Using modern lifetime spans, an average Gorn could last 250 some-odd years and, even then, their "usable age" is from a few months old to around 200 (the same way that our "usable age" would be 18-45?).
The Gorn has many "species" and these sub-species are specialist in nature. The Gorn do not biologically breed but are manufactured. In fact, there's just no desire for biological breeding; It doesn't make sense to them. Most Gorn can't even biologically breed if they wanted to; It's not anatomically possible. The Gorn have kept some "legacy breeds" that can biologically breed but they are curiosities and kept for study, much like a stamp collection or comic book collection.
The Gorn are not into the liberal arts; Any attempts at paintings, expression, music, etc. are just experiments at making Gorn who can do those things &, when they do make Gorn who can do those things, they make sure that those characteristics don't get into the main Gorn breeds. Again, they'll keep a few of them around for study but that's about it. You'll never find "expressionistic" Gorn in any amount of authority or control; they are test subjects or "zoo animals" only.
The Gorn do not like "fake news" and they do not lie amongst each other. They may not know the truth but, when they do not know the truth, they will admit so. The Gorn looks down on anyone giving them "fake news" consistently: first, they'll scold the outsiders for purposely giving them false info, then they'll kill you because you are clearly defective in some way. They don't view individual life the same way that we do.
The Gorn are a former slave race and will admit so and that's all that they'll admit to. they don't talk about their former masters or why they have no masters anymore. The Federation, Klingons, Vulcans & others (except for the Romulans) have made trying to find out more about the masters into a cottage industry that the Gorn do not appreciate but the Gorn does not know the depth and breadth of that industry but simply knows that it exists.
In terms of relations, the Gorn are closest to the Romulans. The Romulans discovered the Gorn and liked the fact that they had found someone that wasn't trying to hurt them. As a result, the Romulans do a lot to make certain that they stay friends with the Gorn.
the Orions do not like the Gorn because the Gorn are not good customers. They don't believe in discretionary spending. The Gorn will allow the Orion into their territory but that's about it.
The Klingons and Gorn have only a strict, diplomatic relationship and that's it. They've never fought each other and will likely never fight. The Klingons would probably "pwn" the Gorn in spaceship combat but the Gorn would "pwn" the Klingons (and everyone else) in physical combat. A mature Gorn looks as though they can take more than a few punches and deliver some back. The Gorn remind the Klingons a little too much of the Vulcans and that puts a kibosh on that relationship.
The Gorn & The Federation are friendly with one another so long as The Vulcans are not involved.
The Gorn & The Vulcans have a very frosty relationship and this is a mystery. Speculation is that The Vulcans remind the Gorn of their master race & that's all that there is: Speculation. The Vulcans are both strangely attracted to & repulsed by the Gorn, as some in Vulcan community think that the Gorn is a very pure form of Vulcan philosophy whereas other in the Vulcan community reply, "Yeah, and how many Gorn can play the trumpet and for how long before that Gorn is killed or put in a cage like a zoo animal? We ain't like that, bro."
The Gorn do have some relics from the master race and they keep this stuff very well hidden. Some even speculate that all of the Gorn's tech progress (or a mass majority of it) comes from that.
The Gorn have never really fought anyone: They never fought the Romulans and only had a brief tussle with the Federation before the Feds figured out that they could end it with words and reasoning (much to their surprise). They have fought pirates of all stripes: Rogue Orion caravans, Federation pirates & Romulan pirates. The Klingons are too far away to do anything & the Vulcans wouldn't bother harming the Gorn. To indicate how much the Romulans prize their peace treaty with the Gorn, if you're a Romulan criminal and you harm the Gorn, you are dead. Dead that very afternoon. And they will show that death to the Gorn and hand the decapitated body over to the Gorn for inspection.
The Romulans & Gorn have exchanged tech although the Romulans have not given the Gorn the cloaking device system. The tech that the Romulans received from the Gorn is a bit creepy: It's all biotech designed to create genetically-better Romulans. And, yes, secretly, the Romulans have used it to an experimental degree. Anything to get a leg up on their rivals.
Anyway, that's it for now, More later. Comments are always welcome. Thanks for reading.
|
|
atolm
Commander
Posts: 857
|
Post by atolm on Jun 24, 2020 13:52:27 GMT -7
I love your versions of these races Most excellent
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 24, 2020 16:12:17 GMT -7
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 25, 2020 14:09:33 GMT -7
As much as I want to talk about the Federation, they're a bit on the dull side. The biggest thing that I did with them was eliminate all of the other races and just have it be human. I know: Dull, right? The thing is, though, I never understood the whole "9 trillion different species" thing with the Feds. It didn't make sense to me. How come the Klingons were the only ones in the Klingon Empire and had all of the territory and the Romulans were the only ones in the Romulan Empire and had all of that territory but the Federation was only a bit larger than either of them but had 9 trillion different species? Made no sense. And, at the time, I had an aversion to "prosthetic rubber mask race of the week" so I cut it all out. Because my alt universe was Romulan-centric, I never really did anything big with the Federation to "fill the space" left by only having humans. Addmitedly, the Vulcans run into the Feds and the Feds sort of take them in but they're the proverbial "odd couple" who begrudgingly work together: The Vulcans because they know that they'd be toast if the Romulans got to them and the Feds because the Vulcans are smart and advance their civilization. If I haven't written already, there's nothing really "special" about the Vulcans except their philosophy and their adherence to it. There's no mindmeld or nerve pinch... They just know how to control their emotions really, really well and stay attentive when the rest of us would be running around, screaming our heads off. Something that I did that was rather amusing (again, perhaps only to myself) is that a bunch of humans have taken up the Vulcan philosophy in the same way as a bunch of Westerners used to travel to India for all of that Eastern Religion vibe thingy. The Vulcans tolerate it and, begrudgingly, admit that some of the humans have even caught on quite well to it. This is where people like Spock (half-human, half-Vulcan) come from. The Federation is pockmarked by all sorts of rascally off-shoots of humanity, each trying their own different brand of utopia but eventually succumbing to the "Yup, maybe our Vegan Paradise where we only build mud huts and chant happy songs couldn't compensate for the rigors of reality." Heck, there's even a certain band of people determined to try out something called Distributism Generally, the Federation tolerates all of these guys as much they shake their fist at them and tries to keep good relations to them. Yes, some of these groups try to hurt the Federation (and some of them even DO) but, for the most part, after a few generations of living in outer space, these kids come back indoors after camping out in the backyard overnight. If anything, some of these off-shoots solve some pretty intriguing problems about how to live off of the land in some ingenious ways and that helps everyone in the Federation. This is how the Feds get all of their best tech, mostly; By everyone else innovating by going it alone, succumbing to the realities of outer space, coming back into the fold of the Federation and discussing what they did right/wrong while they were out there all alone. The Feds aren't perfect by any stretch and they are a bit on the naive side, even after meeting the other civilizations. They try to see the best in people but they do anger when push comes to shove and, like a cast iron stove, once they get hot, they don't cool off quickly. Case in Point: They aren't friends with the Klingons and won't be for anytime soon. Their first fight, vs the Romulans, they didn't like the Romulans but the Vulcans kind of explained the situation with them and so the Feds sort of went, "OK. We kind of understand." The Feds don't particularly like the Romulans afterwards but there's no hate involved; They're just really pesky, conniving neighbors that you have to watch really closely. The Klingons, on the other hand... Yeah, there's some hate there. The Klingons bloodied the nose of the Federation a bit and they didn't like that much at all. In fact, once the Klingons got under the skin of the Federation, they learned that the Federation was more than capable of punching back and some of those punches turned out to be haymakers. The Klingons were really quite surprised that the Feds could punch back as hard as they did; they weren't conniving like the Romulans and so, even though the two sides hate one another, the Klingons have a smirk on their face because they've finally found an adversary that they sorta-kinda can relate to. Romulans? Nah, they're just tricky & ambushy. They rarely, if ever, line up for a straight fight. The Feds? They have no problem going toe-to-toe if they want to and the Klingons sort of admire that even if the Klingons wind up one too many times on the wrong side of that battle. The Feds tolerate the Orion for the most part. Got to break this off. More later.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 25, 2020 14:18:54 GMT -7
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 26, 2020 13:11:23 GMT -7
I love your versions of these races Most excellent Thanks atolm. All of this is mainly for others and partially for myself. This is probably the first time that I've attempted to write this down in many ages (30+ years?). I hope that this also inspires others for their own Star Trek alt universes. Why let it just be inside my own head when it can be inside others and help others as well?
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 26, 2020 13:42:32 GMT -7
If you have questions, ask them whenever. I won't mind. It's fundamentally out there as it is and I'm just adding onto it piecemeal, either as I remember it or as I think that I remember it. Today, I'll write about defectors (as opposed to defecating, which is different). I imagined a bulk of this stuff back when the Soviet Union and the United States were at loggerheads with one another (somewhat not accurate; By the 80s, there was a bit more thaw than there was in, say, the 50s). However, there was still an "Us vs. Them" vibe and so the idea of defectors was not entirely lost. Klingon women don't have much room in the Klingon Empire with all the "might make right" philosophy so they tend to leave with the Orions whenever they come by; That, or the women con their way into leaving for "legit" reasons such as establishing trade relations and then doing a "whoopsie-doodle! I'm a Federation gal now!" after a while. Klingon women tend to go two routes when they defect: Stay with the Orion or go Fed. Both have their advantages in one form or another although the prevailing trend is go Fed because, sometimes, the Klingons like their women back and it's bad for business when you deprive a customer of what they want. Of course, there are also plenty of Orion caravans that don't venture back into Klingon space so... As long as you stick to the right caravan, you're safer? Klingon men also defect although a good chunk of them are criminals in one form or another and just don't want the long arm of the law catching them. Romulans tend to defect. If you're a pro-military, kill 'em all sort of person, you tend to either go and try to find the mythical Hunnarians or you may just stick around in Klingon territory and be part of the "Romulan clan" part of the Klingon Empire. It's a safer bet to go the Klingon route and you don't actually have to 'defect' in the classic sense of the word. If you're a secret Vulcan (yeah, they're still around in the Romulan empire, being Vulcans in secret), you obvious defect to the Feds so you can be with your fellow Vulcans. Of course, there are still "public Vulcans" in the Romulan Empire but we'll get to that in a moment... Sometimes, Romulans defect to the Feds. It happens. Might as well point out that the Gorn never defect. Nope. Not at all. And that story of that band of "expressionistic" Gorn that managed to escape custody and find their way into Fed space? Well, the Feds have no comment on that. Also, no one defects to the Gorn. And, if you do, you've got many, many behavioral health problems besides the one that compelled you to defect to the Gorn. The Gorn will just send you back, usually to the Feds (because that's where you came from in 99.999999% of the time). The Orion don't defect in the classic sense of the term. If anything, they defect from one caravan to another and that's a big deal for them. It's sort of like sports teams acquiring players and losing players and the like. Internally, it's a big deal but, outside the Orions, nobody pays any real attention. There are some Vulcans that "defect" back into the Romulan Empire. Yeah, that's as strange as it sounds but, occasionally, you'll get a Vulcan that determines that it's logical to walk up to the Romulans and advise them of how foolish they are in one way or another. The Romulans aren't entirely daft and know that they can't outright kill Vulcans who are stupid enough to wander back into Romulan space; It'd just irritate the Feds and prove the Vulcans right (which would irritate the Romulans). A lot of times, the Romulans will just throw the Vulcan back into Fed space with a warning and attempt to make the barbed wire fence a little higher and a bit pointier for the next time. The Orions aren't stupid enough to facilitate this and so Orion caravans that have Vulcan members know to steer clear of Romulan space or that part of the caravan just doesn't go in. Orions have a huge class division between those who roam around in spacecraft and those that reside on planets but there's no "defections" in that sense; As long as you don't go bounding down the street, professing your love for being on a planet, you can get away with secretly loving to be on a planet and a fellow Orion isn't going to hold it against you. Being on a planet is a necessary evil when dealing with the other races. Do Fed people defect? Yup. Klingons roll their eyes at Feds who defect to them and it's a delicate balance because they can't really enslave them (even if they wanted to) because that would irritate the Feds but, at the same time, they don't want them in their society so... Off to colonization you go! Buh-bye! Oh, and Romulan spies pretending to be defectors (mainly to the Vulcans and the Feds)? Yeah, the Vulcans can sniff them out fairly quick so that tactic by the Romulans didn't last long. In the end, defectors don't play a real meaningful part. They often don't add any meaningful intelligence that the other side doesn't tend to already know to some degree. They slowly build up the population of hybrids but not to any meaningful degree.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 26, 2020 15:47:22 GMT -7
Tinker, Taylor, Vulcan, Terran!
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jun 29, 2020 16:49:05 GMT -7
Let's talk Tholians for a moment, shall we? I know. You're thinking to yourself, "Hey, the Tholians haven't been mentioned in this alt-universe yet. I wonder what wacky, goofball revision was made for this civilization."
Well, in this alt-universe, they don't exist. At all.
Let me explain.
See, I just couldn't make the Tholians 'fit.' I tried. I really did. When I was making this alt-universe, I wanted to make all of the civilizations "good" in some way and also make them unique and special and something that a person might be interested in. I wanted to "fold over" the successful "Star Trek: Next Generation" civilizations into the existing ones so that I wouldn't have to deal with the all of those extra civilizations.
Yet I just couldn't see a path forward with the Tholians. First and foremost, a lot of this was done during the pre-Internet and, outside of exactly one episode, I had no idea what the Tholians even were, outside of their triangular ships that weave spider web thingies. So, were they arachnids of some type? If Klingons were violent and Romulans were cunning and the Federation noble (but naive) and Orions cut-throat capitalists and Vulcans intellectuals and the Gorn simplistic... What could the Tholians be? How could I make them distinct but good but still give them flaws but still make them a viable civilization?
I had a lot of ideas. I remember one version where they were a race of females that had transcended biological reproduction but that encroached a bit upon the Gorn (who had already adopted a bit of Borg in them but stopped short of going full Borg). Another idea was that they were a fully robotic race but, again, I couldn't quite see where I could separate them from the Borg/Gorn. One possibility was that they were an extinct race and the other races pick through the ruins, each trying to find valuable tech or even survivors or descendants... But didn't I have an "extinct" master race for the Gorn? Ugh.
In the end, I just couldn't find a way to make the Tholians 'fit' with the other civilizations and so the Tholians just quietly faded away into obscurity. If I wanted a violent race, I had Klingons. Neutral/Noble/Naive race? Feds. Intellectuals to a fault? Vulcans. Cunning and paranoid? The Romulans. A race that wouldn't leave you alone until you bought something from their booth? The Orions. A simplistic, working class race? The Gorn.
I'm sure I could have made up SOMETHING. But, in the end, it really didn't matter. It was my own little alt universe, residing in exactly one brain and the alt universe was already doing the one thing that I had designed it to do: Entertain me. So, in the end, the Tholians just "never got past the drawing board," so to speak.
But it's not in my brain anymore; It might just be in yours now, as well. So, you (yes, YOU) tell me: How would you make the Tholians fit into this alt-universe? Because, after all, I'm not the only one with an overactive imagination and WAY too much time on their hands.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jun 30, 2020 10:22:14 GMT -7
I'm trying to think of something that might fit in. Let me throw out a few thoughts. Some might stick! A) Literal insect-like, but IN SPACE! Appearance is up to you. It's not that they're xenophobic, they think and act as a hive, literally and physically? They stay close to their home space, and that might mean more than one location (different hives)? In various sources, we've seen Tholian space as at the edge of Federation Space on the other side of Gorn space from the Romulans (FASA and Star Trek Maps), at the edge of the Federation Treaty Zone, directly between the point where the Klingon and Romulan Empires would have touched if the Tholians hadn't came to our Galaxy and claimed the space (SFB, inspired by the Star Fleet Technical Manual), and beyond Cardassian space, which is on the opposite side of the Federation from both the Klingons and the Romulans (Star Trek Star Charts)! So, let's say their 'hives' could be anywhere, making them extremely territorial. Leave them alone, and they don't bother you. Come into their space, and they are wary, worried about what you're up to, and very precise about times given. Get more inquisitive (Starfleet?), or more worryingly, aggressive (Klingon?), or are even a minute late doing something(!), and they get all aggressive right back at ya! In your face, literally, like disturbing a hornets nest? Those little tri-laterally symmetrical ships might be small, but in a swarm? Look out Starfleet, or anyone else for that matter! They mine for crystal, so dilithium might be a source of conflict, but they also 'mine' for gases (gas giants), and energy, so you might see them VERY close to stars, siphoning energy and plasma from prominences in the stellar chromospheres? Because no one else does that, or can even get so close to stars like that to even attempt something like that, it gets EVERYONE worried! B) A slight variation of above, what if the Tholian SHIP is the life form? Still with the overprotective attitude! So maybe they're not so much mining energy, but feeding off of it! C) Or, they're a interdimensional species, and what we see as unstable space where we see Tholian vessels are portals into our universe (different 'hives' again), where they can observe species from afar? So information gatherers, just VERY secrative, VERY overprotective ones! Still using the attributes of A) above. I would like to hear the thoughts from thescreamingswede, who came up with a much more elegant system for Tholian ships in the STSTCS game than my clumsier attempt to port across the SFB version.
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jul 1, 2020 16:28:29 GMT -7
I'm trying to think of something that might fit in. Let me throw out a few thoughts. Some might stick! A) Literal insect-like, but IN SPACE! Appearance is up to you. It's not that they're xenophobic, they think and act as a hive, literally and physically? They stay close to their home space, and that might mean more than one location (different hives)? In various sources, we've seen Tholian space as at the edge of Federation Space on the other side of Gorn space from the Romulans (FASA and Star Trek Maps), at the edge of the Federation Treaty Zone, directly between the point where the Klingon and Romulan Empires would have touched if the Tholians hadn't came to our Galaxy and claimed the space (SFB, inspired by the Star Fleet Technical Manual), and beyond Cardassian space, which is on the opposite side of the Federation from both the Klingons and the Romulans (Star Trek Star Charts)! So, let's say their 'hives' could be anywhere, making them extremely territorial. Leave them alone, and they don't bother you. Come into their space, and they are wary, worried about what you're up to, and very precise about times given. Get more inquisitive (Starfleet?), or more worryingly, aggressive (Klingon?), or are even a minute late doing something(!), and they get all aggressive right back at ya! In your face, literally, like disturbing a hornets nest? Those little tri-laterally symmetrical ships might be small, but in a swarm? Look out Starfleet, or anyone else for that matter! They mine for crystal, so dilithium might be a source of conflict, but they also 'mine' for gases (gas giants), and energy, so you might see them VERY close to stars, siphoning energy and plasma from prominences in the stellar chromospheres? Because no one else does that, or can even get so close to stars like that to even attempt something like that, it gets EVERYONE worried! B) A slight variation of above, what if the Tholian SHIP is the life form? Still with the overprotective attitude! So maybe they're not so much mining energy, but feeding off of it! C) Or, they're a interdimensional species, and what we see as unstable space where we see Tholian vessels are portals into our universe (different 'hives' again), where they can observe species from afar? So information gatherers, just VERY secrative, VERY overprotective ones! Still using the attributes of A) above. I would like to hear the thoughts from thescreamingswede , who came up with a much more elegant system for Tholian ships in the STSTCS game than my clumsier attempt to port across the SFB version. I must confess that these are all nice suggestions. I suppose that it's only fair that I do something with the species, since they are considered canon in the the TOS era. The entire "ghost civilization" angle has always appealed to me, sort of like "There Will Come Soft Rains" by Ray Bradbury but on an epic scale (robots that continue doing mundane tasks even though their masters are gone) but the Gorn kind of already hold that territory. I've sort of covered a lot of the emotional territory (cunning = Romulan, intellectual = Vulcan, naive but nice = Feds, aggressive = Klingon, opportunistic = Orion, simplistic = Gorn). An all robot race is appealing because I don't have that yet but it would have to be offset by something. Artistic robots? It's possible; A race that is trying to defy their origins? Again, that almost swerves into Gorn territory (a former slave race now grappling to be it's own civilization). Insects... That's a tough sell. Insects tend to be "evil" by default because they are so non-humanoid. The more non-humanoid you go, the more you have to compensate to make them likeable again. With the Gorn, I removed the obvious "rubber suit" features in the TOS episode and made them short and squat and also simplistic, almost like a sentient pet. And even if I do find something that could work, I'd have to integrate them into the existing storyline in a way that makes it seem as they were always there in some regard. Oblivious robots? That's a possibility. Hmmm.... Much to think about. Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by brickwall on Jul 1, 2020 16:38:48 GMT -7
I'm trying to think of something that might fit in. Let me throw out a few thoughts. Some might stick! A) Literal insect-like, but IN SPACE! Appearance is up to you. It's not that they're xenophobic, they think and act as a hive, literally and physically? They stay close to their home space, and that might mean more than one location (different hives)? In various sources, we've seen Tholian space as at the edge of Federation Space on the other side of Gorn space from the Romulans (FASA and Star Trek Maps), at the edge of the Federation Treaty Zone, directly between the point where the Klingon and Romulan Empires would have touched if the Tholians hadn't came to our Galaxy and claimed the space (SFB, inspired by the Star Fleet Technical Manual), and beyond Cardassian space, which is on the opposite side of the Federation from both the Klingons and the Romulans (Star Trek Star Charts)! So, let's say their 'hives' could be anywhere, making them extremely territorial. Leave them alone, and they don't bother you. Come into their space, and they are wary, worried about what you're up to, and very precise about times given. Get more inquisitive (Starfleet?), or more worryingly, aggressive (Klingon?), or are even a minute late doing something(!), and they get all aggressive right back at ya! In your face, literally, like disturbing a hornets nest? Those little tri-laterally symmetrical ships might be small, but in a swarm? Look out Starfleet, or anyone else for that matter! They mine for crystal, so dilithium might be a source of conflict, but they also 'mine' for gases (gas giants), and energy, so you might see them VERY close to stars, siphoning energy and plasma from prominences in the stellar chromospheres? Because no one else does that, or can even get so close to stars like that to even attempt something like that, it gets EVERYONE worried! B) A slight variation of above, what if the Tholian SHIP is the life form? Still with the overprotective attitude! So maybe they're not so much mining energy, but feeding off of it! C) Or, they're a interdimensional species, and what we see as unstable space where we see Tholian vessels are portals into our universe (different 'hives' again), where they can observe species from afar? So information gatherers, just VERY secrative, VERY overprotective ones! Still using the attributes of A) above. I would like to hear the thoughts from thescreamingswede , who came up with a much more elegant system for Tholian ships in the STSTCS game than my clumsier attempt to port across the SFB version. I must confess that these are all nice suggestions. I suppose that it's only fair that I do something with the species, since they are considered canon in the the TOS era. The entire "ghost civilization" angle has always appealed to me, sort of like "There Will Come Soft Rains" by Ray Bradbury but on an epic scale (robots that continue doing mundane tasks even though their masters are gone) but the Gorn kind of already hold that territory. I've sort of covered a lot of the emotional territory (cunning = Romulan, intellectual = Vulcan, naive but nice = Feds, aggressive = Klingon, opportunistic = Orion, simplistic = Gorn). An all robot race is appealing because I don't have that yet but it would have to be offset by something. Artistic robots? It's possible; A race that is trying to defy their origins? Again, that almost swerves into Gorn territory (a former slave race now grappling to be it's own civilization). Insects... That's a tough sell. Insects tend to be "evil" by default because they are so non-humanoid. The more non-humanoid you go, the more you have to compensate to make them likeable again. With the Gorn, I removed the obvious "rubber suit" features in the TOS episode and made them short and squat and also simplistic, almost like a sentient pet. And even if I do find something that could work, I'd have to integrate them into the existing storyline in a way that makes it seem as they were always there in some regard. Oblivious robots? That's a possibility. Hmmm.... Much to think about. Thank you. Well, if you want to contemplate your Tholians as -- perhaps -- "good" insectoids, think of them like honeybees.
Honeybees make honey, which is beneficial to humans in moderate doses. They also pollinate plants which humans and animals need for survival. They also make beeswax which humans use for candles for light. And bees don't sting humans unless they're attacked or feel threatened.
So your version of the Tholians could be crystalline insectoids that possess honeybee traits. Try that on for size and see if it fits.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jul 1, 2020 17:05:32 GMT -7
I must confess that these are all nice suggestions. I suppose that it's only fair that I do something with the species, since they are considered canon in the the TOS era. The entire "ghost civilization" angle has always appealed to me, sort of like "There Will Come Soft Rains" by Ray Bradbury but on an epic scale (robots that continue doing mundane tasks even though their masters are gone) but the Gorn kind of already hold that territory. I've sort of covered a lot of the emotional territory (cunning = Romulan, intellectual = Vulcan, naive but nice = Feds, aggressive = Klingon, opportunistic = Orion, simplistic = Gorn). An all robot race is appealing because I don't have that yet but it would have to be offset by something. Artistic robots? It's possible; A race that is trying to defy their origins? Again, that almost swerves into Gorn territory (a former slave race now grappling to be it's own civilization). Insects... That's a tough sell. Insects tend to be "evil" by default because they are so non-humanoid. The more non-humanoid you go, the more you have to compensate to make them likeable again. With the Gorn, I removed the obvious "rubber suit" features in the TOS episode and made them short and squat and also simplistic, almost like a sentient pet. And even if I do find something that could work, I'd have to integrate them into the existing storyline in a way that makes it seem as they were always there in some regard. Oblivious robots? That's a possibility. Hmmm.... Much to think about. Thank you. Well, if you want to contemplate your Tholians as -- perhaps -- "good" insectoids, think of them like honeybees.
Honeybees make honey, which is beneficial to humans in moderate doses. They also pollinate plants which humans and animals need for survival. They also make beeswax which humans use for candles for light. And bees don't sting humans unless they're attacked or feel threatened.
So your version of the Tholians could be crystalline insectoids that possess honeybee traits. Try that on for size and see if it fits. steve, that's why I mentioned 'insect-like', although brickwall makes a good point about honey bees. I've seen three different appearances for Tholians, extrapolated from the TOS head shot. SFB went with a crystalline humanoid shape, so two arms and legs. Franchise Trek showed us the arachnid-like version in the "Enterprise" Mirror Universe episode, six legs and two arms. Plus I've seen a version where the head from TOS is on top of a tall rhomboid crystal body, with NO limbs, which levitates, but is not a machine. Think it was an art book called "The Worlds of the Federation". So, they don't have to be literally insects, just have their behaviour be insect-like to be different from the rest of the races. Your choice. I tried to factor in behaviour that was seen in various episodes, tuned to your alternate universe to give you full choice. I even hinted at the Tholians behaviour near stars shown in the Star Trek fan film episode "The Tressaurian Intersection" from Starship Exeter!
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jul 1, 2020 17:13:18 GMT -7
Incidentally, I think I may have crystallized (see what I did there!) my idea of Tholians in my FASA universe with option A) and C) that I proposed!
|
|
steve
Commander
Posts: 537
|
Post by steve on Jul 3, 2020 16:55:13 GMT -7
One aspect of my alt universe is that I've always enjoyed are the mundane aspects of life in a retro-futuristic setting such as the TOS era of Star Trek. There's a certain romanticism (unwarranted, as much as I don't care to admit it) of being on a deep space outpost in the middle of proverbial nowhere... Or the day-to-day struggles of operating a tug for a lesser drydock... Or just one of a thousand ships in a typical Orion caravan...
I've never much cared for "big naval battles" or high-level soap-opera scheming that seems to pervade modern television shows. In my alt universe, history is won by ordinary individuals simply doing their jobs as best as they could, occasionally taking modest leaps of faith in their occupation. It's won by the Klingon janitor who spots a problem on a mothballed battleship and a Romulan desk clerk who keeps spotting the same error on certain forms and the Federation colonist who only wants to keep busy and notices something askew in one of the storage rooms. That appeal translated to my ship constructions as well: What good were battleships if the supply ships couldn't deliver the resources necessary to repair them? What point are cruisers if not for the colonizer ships and survey ships that came before them to properly document the solar system? Everyone loves a space battle (myself included) but only from afar; When you're in one, you're likely scared to death of being killed.
Anyway, sorry to get slightly-OT but I just wanted to illustrate how my thought processes were in developing my alt universe and, by extension, my ship designs. Which dovetails into my next question: Is there any way to attach files to posts? I've been working on some histories of fan ships and they're pretty long (the first one is 14 pages). I could always post an outside link to a PDF file but I'd prefer if there was a way to just share them here directly. No biggie either way but I thought that I'd ask before I got too far ahead of myself.
|
|
|
Post by trynda1701 on Jul 3, 2020 17:11:33 GMT -7
steveYour idea of posting a link to any PDF files for ship histories is the way to go. The memory space for forum attachments is full, and not used these days. Moderator would have to clear out attachments regularly, making old posts with them obsolete. See this thread below. ststcsolda.proboards.com/thread/887/forum-attachmentsSame for ship or miniature pictures, which can be hosted on your image service of choice (Imgur, Flickr, postimage.cc etc).
|
|