steve
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Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 7, 2020 15:11:45 GMT -7
I was asked to share what my alternate Star Trek universe was and so here it is. Hopefully, I'm in the right section to post this. Otherwise, please transfer it to wherever it needs to go.
First, I'm not a TNG guy. I appreciated the series, I watched it, enjoyed it... But it's not really 'Star Trek' to me. My universe is in the TOS era and pretty much stays there. I don't have the Borg. I don't have the Ferengi. I don't have anyone who comes afterward (The Kardashians, Dominion, whomever). It's not that I hate the Borg or the Ferengi but I kept asking myself, "Do I really NEED them? What do they ADD to the universe that I can't get elsewhere?" Admittedly, I think that I tried hard to add the Borg just because they became the de facto villains of the TNG era and so I was kind of holding them back for an almost "Everyone Else vs. the Borg" event, much like with Battletech when the Clans invaded the Inner Sphere (BTW, some of my friends were HEAVY into Battletech so, yeah, a tiny bit of it rubbed off on my alternate universe).
Also, I kind of just ignored the Tholians because I honestly didn't know what to do with them. I think that, at one point, I had tried to make them an all female civilization that had transcended mortality through technology but it just kept feeling too much like an angry female version of the Borg and so I just dropped them. Oops.
In my alternate universe, I tried to make all of the sides fairly "good" in their own way. I know that, nowadays, people will associate with Klingons & Romulans and others regardless of on-screen "villain" stuff but I just remember in Classic Star Trek that "Federation = Good, Klingons & Romulans = Bad, Orions = Merchants, Gorn = Monster of the Week." So I tried to even it all out as best as my young teenage self could.
First and foremost, this alternate universe is fairly biased towards the Romulans. The Romulans are, by no means, perfect but they aren't "enemies" anymore. In fact, no one is. However, this alternate universe is told through the eyes of the Romulans.
In the alternate universe, the Romulan culture has always been under threat from someone, either from within or elsewhere. This is what makes the Romulans paranoid and a bit stand-off-ish; You would be too if your land was constantly invaded by just about everyone you came across and even by some of your own people. First up was a fictional faction within the Romulans called the "Hannurians." Think of them as the military of the Romulans. The Romulans were run by the Senate & they were pretty pacifist about expansion and weapons technology, the military didn't like this and tried to take over the Romulan civilization. Much bloodshed occurred. The Romulan civilization nearly lost. However, they fought back and drove the Hannurians out of Romulan space (I kept the rough borders of TOS space so it would away from Federation space). The Romulans, though, ironically enough, became an Empire with an Emperor as a result so it's almost as though the Hannurians, in a very backhanded way, got what they had wanted: Turning the Romulans into a much more war-like civilization.
The "Vulcans" in the Romulan civilization were the ultimate pacifists and did not like this development at all. At first, they tolerated it because at least they weren't defeated by the Hannurians but the Romulans in their post-Hannurian state weren't much better. And, to top it all off, the Romulans weren't exactly enjoying what the Vulcans were constantly saying about them. So, eventually, the Vulcans just left; They decided to leave the Romulan Empire for good and they made noise about it. This did not make the Romulans happy and the Vulcans anticipated this so they staged this massive "cyberattack" (it wasn't called that back then because I wrote this pre-Internet but that's what it would be regarded today) that completely cripples Romulan civilization so that they can retreat without getting the crap kicked out of them by the Romulans. Furthermore, the Vulcans decided to steal all of the valuable technology and sabotage the remaining copies so that the Romulans couldn't use the tech against them. This made the Romulans especially not happy.
The Vulcans knew that the Hannurians left in one direction and since the Hannurians were the exact opposite of what the Vulcans were ideologically, the Vulcans left in the Romulan Empire in the exact opposite direction (unknowingly towards Federation space). The Romulans, because they were crippled by the Vulcans' diversionary cyberattack, had no idea where the Vulcans went and, even if they did, they were in no position to do everything because the Vulcans effective broke everything, causing a lot of ancillary damage and death. The Romulans, in short, were not only not happy but also extremely paranoid now of anyone who was too militaristic and those who were too intellectual.
The Romulans eventually figure out that (A). They're much more afraid of the Hannurians than the Vulcans & (B). They should prepare for a Hannurian invasion since the Hannurians, although defeated, were not destroyed; They just left Romulan space and the Romulans were too weak to do anything about it except watch them leave. So that's what they do; They regroup and begin to arm themselves for a probable invasion.
One of the few pieces of technology that the Vulcans didn't manage to sabotage (through an amazing stroke of luck) was a very early version of the Cloaking Device. The Cloaking Device wasn't meant for military use; In fact, it was originally developed by what would now be considered the Vulcans so that new civilizations (presumably primitive ones) could be observed without interfering with their development as a culture. So, naturally, the Romulans would use that as their chief "weapon" and they get right to work on sciencing the s**t out of it.
And it's a good thing they do that because guess who discovers them? That's right: The Klingons. Now, the Klingons in my universe are sort of like "The Barbarians" in that they are very fractured and tribal. There is a Klingon race but that race has many different factions. However, most factions believe that they are the supreme race of the universe and everyone who is not them should either be enslaved or be destroyed. The first meeting between the Klingons & the Romulans does not go well at all. The Romulans initially think that the Hannurians are back and go into instant panic mode. The Klingons merely think, "Oh boy, new territory to conquer. Gimme." This, ironically, unites the Klingon tribes and they all rush into Romulan space.
The Romulans, meanwhile, have been developing the cloaking device and decide that now would be a great time to use it against these new people, the Klingons. And they do. To devastating effect.
The Klingons, who's entire military strategy up to this point is, "Rush at enemy screaming and hope that they relent" because that's what they constantly do to each other suddenly find themselves on the wrong sides of many battles. Many battles. Until they admit defeat.
The Romulans can't believe that they've just won a bona fide war. They fought the Hannurians but always felt as though they had fumbled their way to victory (they admit that they caught some huge lucky breaks in barely winning). They never "fought" the Vulcans as the Vulcans sabotaged everything before they left and so it wasn't really a fight. Here, against the Klingons, they... won. Fair and square. This boosts Romulan morale tremendously. They fought a Hannurian-like civilization and WON. Because of this victory, they decide to go after the Vulcans. They've finally figured out which direction the Vulcans went in and decide that it's time for the Vulcans to get the beating that they so desperately deserve...
...And they run smack into the Federation.
Anyway, that's all for now. I'll write more later. Hope you enjoyed it. Comments are always welcome.
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atolm
Commander
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Post by atolm on Jun 7, 2020 16:36:04 GMT -7
Very cool. TOS Alt-Trek... I like it
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 7, 2020 17:18:43 GMT -7
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 7, 2020 17:29:00 GMT -7
Anyway, the Klingons decide that, since the Romulans "defeated" them, they should be treated just like another Klingon tribe. They get representation in Klingon tribal matters, etc. so forth... The Romulans are like "Woah. That's all nice and good. Let's start with, 'you respect my borders and not try that s**t ever again, mkay? And we'll take it from there." So, for now, the Romulans & Klingons are at peace. Of course, some of the Klingon tribes are more pissed about the defeat than others but a defeat is a defeat and they have to live with it. The Romulans do sit on a Klingon tribal council but it's an observational position and they don't have any real influence. The Romulans don't really consider themselves "another Klingon tribe" and the Klingon tribes certainly don't consider the Romulans a real Klingon tribe because they didn't fight the Klingon way (ie they didn't fight "fair"). So the peace is tenuous at best.
Meanwhile, getting back to the Vulcans, the Vulcans run straight into the Federation and, by Federation, I mean "humans." Personally, I've never understood why the Federation had a bajillion races. It just never quite made sense to me: If the Klingons were a single race and had all of this territory and the Romulans were a single race and had all of this territory and even the Gorn and the Orions... Why did the Federation have a bajillion races and why didn't any of them expand outward? Was the Federation just filled with these lazy species that didn't do any exploration? Furthermore, I just didn't like the whole "prosthetic face mask race of the week" mentality. I get it: TV shows are on a budget and need to do what they have to do but it just... When I was younger, I wanted to simplify, so I did. As a result, the Federation = Humans with some Vulcans thrown into the mix.
In my alternate universe, the Vulcans are... complicated. They're very much like classic Vulcans but they've already been burnt once by telling the truth to someone (read: Romulans) who claimed to want to hear it until they didn't. Therefore, they're not exactly forthcoming with the full truth as they once were. These Vulcans have learned to hold their tongue. Anyway, the Vulcans and humans meet and the Vulcans are like, "Dude, you don't want to go in that direction. We just came from there and those people are going to hurt you..." and then the Vulcans realized, "Wait... these guys can beat the crap out of the Romulans and..."
So the Vulcans are like, "Look, we've got all this sweet tech and we'll cut a deal. We give you the tech and you guys protect us from the people coming in that direction who look just like us, OK?"
And the humans look at the tech, look at the Vulcans and go, "OK." So the Federation gives the Vulcans a shiny new Federation badge, sit them down and they begin to work together. So the Federation knows about the Romulans but the Romulans know nothing about the Federation. Meanwhile, the Vulcans, even though they're working on tech for the Federation, they're also working on tech for themselves in case they need to make a quick getaway if the Federation can't protect them against the Romulans.
And then the Federation and the Romulans meet. Ho boy. That's an awkward moment because the Feds are like, "Hey! you look just like the guys... Oh." And since their entire source of information about the Romulans comes from the Vulcans, the Feds don't have too high an opinion about the Romulans. Meanwhile, the Romulans are far more neutral and they're like, "Hey, have you seen a bunch of guys who look just like us but are really conniving and try to take over your civilization when you least expect it?"
"Huh," replied the Feds.
However, by this time, the Romulans have figured out that the Feds are hiding the Vulcans (cloaking devices, remember?) and they go after the Vulcans/Feds the same way they tried going after the Klingons. However, the Romulans forget that, simply because the Vulcans had failed to sabotage their cloaking device tech research doesn't mean that the Vulcans didn't know about it and had anticipated it's use. So, the Vulcans can detect these ships and they point it out to the Feds and say, "Guess whose running around your territory?" This does not please the Feds and it causes an incident that leads to the Romulan-Fed conflict.
I'll stop there and continue on later. Comments always welcome. Thanks.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 7, 2020 17:32:57 GMT -7
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Post by brickwall on Jun 7, 2020 17:56:25 GMT -7
I like your take on the TOS Era, Steve. Very nicely done. I await your view on both the Orions and Gorns in the near future.
Onward and upward!
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 8, 2020 7:01:37 GMT -7
When you've finished giving us the overview, I'd like to see a basic timeline of when these events occur in your universe. Obviously, the timeframe sounds more recent. But only after you've finished your overview. Don't want you to give anything away yet!
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 8, 2020 13:12:50 GMT -7
I forgot about the Gorn. My bad. In fact, I can't remember if the Romulans find the Gorn before or after they fought the Romulans. I'm working on memories that are 30+ years old and, when you yourself is the only audience to your own timeline, you've got the right to make big changes on the fly.
However, I'm thinking that the Romulans discovered the Gorn BEFORE they found the Vulcans/Feds on the simple notion that it eliminated all of the other directions. In FASA Trek, if my memory serves me correctly, the map is roughly thus: Feds in the center, Klingons above the Feds, Romulans to the right of the Feds, Gorn to the south of the Feds (As indicated earlier, I'm leaving out the Tholians), Orions in that Triangle-y portion. And I keep that map mostly intact. Mostly.
Well, the Romulans fought off the Hannurians and they went to the right. The Romulans then got sabotaged by the Vulcans and they left but, because Hannurians and Vulcans mix like water & oil, the Romulans knew that they couldn't go to the right because they'd have the chance to run into the Hannurians. The Romulans then encountered the Klingons to their north so the Vulcans didn't go there. That only leaves the south (where the Gorn are) and to the left (the Feds/Vulcans).
So let's talk Gorn. If you've seen the TOS episode with the Gorn, that's not the Gorn here. The Gorn are still reptilian in nature but that's about it. See, the typical Gorn is about 4 feet tall and as broad as they are tall. They're slightly hunched over. They've got stubby, short thick tails. They're a little bit like an alligator; You think to yourself, "That alligator can't get me because I'm way over here." Then when the alligator starts charging you really fast, you run away screaming your head off the entire time.
The Gorn are a former slave race so they are built to be sturdy little slaves. They are also built to be somewhat obedient and obey commands. However, they're also built to work together as a team and not have ego. So, individually, they're sort of a dim bulb. However, they're never alone; There's always a lot of them around. And, together, they're way smarter than they look. And, since they don't take kindly to what we now call "Fake News," they're also way more advanced then you'd think they are. They're advanced enough to be their own people.
How did the Gorn break free from their now-extinct master race? Being 100% honest, I left that as a big question mark. When writing stories, you need to have your mysteries and this was one of them that I never really filled in. Who was the master race? I've got my thoughts but they were never definitive. I filled in the story elsewhere. However, it's a really touchy subject for the Gorn so I wouldn't ask them about it if I were you. Not even the Romulans ask the Gorn about it and the Romulans & Gorn are about as close to Peanut Butter & Jelly as this alternate universe gets.
Why are the Romulans & Gorn close? Because they both are on the same type of wavelength when it comes their civilizations. The Romulans have had their civilization f**ked with 3 times already. The Hannurians are what Romulan parents use to scare their kids to eat their vegetables and it works for the adults, too. the Vulcans could cause another cyberattack at any minute & the last one wrecked the Empire but good. The Klingons were only beaten because they had no answer to the cloaking device (which, BTW, the Klingons would like to get their hands on in really, really short order because they've figured out that's how the Romulans defeated them).
And here are the Gorn and when the Romulans meet the Gorn... The Gorn don't want to attack them. The Gorn are just like, "Are you going to try to enslave us?" And the Romulans are like, "Are you going to try to invade us?" And when they both answer "No" at the same time, they're both like, "Sweet. One less crisis I have to deal with." The Romulan-Gorn peace treaty is about as easy to enforce as easy gets. Sure, there are elements of the Romulan Empire that don't trust the Gorn at all but this is the first time they've met someone who has no ambition to attack them so long as you don't invade their turf. Done. From the Gorn perspective, they've run across a race that respects their turf and doesn't want to enslave them. Done deal. We'll just explore in a different direction. Although, to be fair, you have to be precise with the Gorn; they don't do well with inferences. They don't do sarcasm. There's no reading between the lines with them. There are little incidents where the Gorn interpret the peace treaty literally which causes some consternation with the Romulans but... They're the Gorn. They're simple folks (for the most part). Just modify the treaty, have them sign it and everything is fine again. No harm, no foul. From the Romulan perspective, the Gorn doesn't look like they have any valuable tech... But, of course, they do. They have the tech of their former master race and it's some pretty high-end stuff that the Gorn are trying to reverse-engineer. However, the tech that the Gorn are most interested in is mainly biological in nature; The other stuff, the phasers and shields and warp drives... Yeah, they're not that into that stuff. They'll get around to it eventually.
Romulans and the Feds. They're at war. And the Romulans... Are defeated. Although the Romulans do not suffer a Hannurian-styled defeat. Instead, they're a bit sensitive about people killing them and they know when they're licked. The thing about the Feds (and I'll get more into it later) is that they have some really nice ships. In fact, the Feds have the best tech thus far. The Feds may not have the cloaking device but they don't need a cloaking device to punch you hard and, so long as they can find cloaked ships... Well, that's the ballgame for the Romulans.
The Romulans are not happy that the Feds won't let them bring the Vulcans to justice and are defending the Vulcans. But they're like, "Fine! We can't suffer another setback to our civilization. As much as it hurts that they're protecting one of our enemies... We need to protect ourselves from the kling..."
And that's when the Romulans get a bright idea. The Romulans know that the Feds haven't discovered the Klingons yet. Heh. The Vulcans don't know about the Klingons yet because they left before the Romulans discovered the Klingons. And the Klingons don't know about the Feds yet...
"OK," the romulans tell the Feds, "You beat us. You've won. All that we ask is that you don't enter our turf and that includes the Vulcans. We'll build this big wall between us called The Neutral Zone. We don't invade you. You don't invade us. More importantly, we don't want those Vulcans anywhere near us. That's on you, OK?"
Feds think about it. "Ok," they reply, "Deal." And the Romulans, true to their word, build one heck of a wall between themselves and the Feds, slightly chuckling to themselves the entire time. Then they turn to the Klingons with a bemused smirk while holding back maniacal laughter and say, "You know what? We've just gone West and there's nothing there for us. What a big waste of time. I guess someone else can claim that territory because we've got better things to do. Oh well. Back to mowing our lawn. Hope all is well where you are."
And the Klingons are like, "These losers are purposely not claiming open territory? they are such not Klingons!" And then they start heading south... Straight into the Federation...
More later. Comments are always welcome. Thanks.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 8, 2020 16:59:55 GMT -7
Like the update. But isn't there a typo in the direction the Hannurians went? Going with your orientation of Federation in the middle and Romulans to the left, shouldn't the Hannurians go LEFT leaving Romulan space, away from Federation space? I think you repeat it further down too, saying the Vulcans can't go right, in case they encounter the Hannurians, so go left to encounter the Federation? Your initial layout is right, just the descriptions on Hannurian and Vulcan directions of flight sounds back to front. Or am I missing something?
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 8, 2020 17:20:14 GMT -7
Yeah, you're right (left?). Hopefully, I fixed the directions in the previous post.
Too late for an update today. I'll try to do one tomorrow. The Orions are coming, hope you like them, I thought that I gave them a neat twist...
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 8, 2020 17:37:14 GMT -7
Actually, I thought you had the map layout correct the first time, if you go by FASA and have the Federation in the centre and put the Klingons at the top, the Romulans would be to the left! Here's an image of the main FASA map, which is in the standard orientation, but upside down compared to how you describe it... However, if your corrected description is the way you had it, no problem. Will just try and remember your layout is different! Sorry to be a nitpicker! Looking forward to the Orions, I'm a bit of a FASA fan of them, as my avatar and signature shows (the FASA Orion symbol, and the Wanderer class Blockade Runner!). It will be interesting to see your take on them.
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 9, 2020 13:59:19 GMT -7
I should just turn in my FASA Star Trek badge now while I'm ahead of the game. Seriously, I thought, for DECADES, that the Federation was in the middle, Klingons roughly to the North, Romulans to the East & the Gorn to the South. In fact, the FASA map that you have is my memory but flipped on the horizontal axis. Huh.
Well, on that bombshell... Let's talk Orions because I have been meaning to get to the Orions for quite some time. Now, in my alternate universe, the Romulans were the "Good Guys" (OK, technically ALL OF THE SIDES were good in their own way because, when I was a teenager, the whole 'white hat - black hat' thing just didn't agree with me) but that doesn't mean that the Orions weren't cool, because...
The Orions were a nomadic race. Really. Hear me out: The history of the Orions is that their home planet went "poof!" really, really early on in their civilization, such that they had two choices: Extinction or learn how to live outside of your (former) solar system really, really quickly... On a permanent basis. Most normal civilizations, traumatized as such, would simply have settled into the next solar system available and had called it a day.
But not the Orions. Oh no. They went full nomad and didn't bother looking back.
Now, when someone goes full nomad, they tend to adopt a "Do I need this? No? Then let's get rid of it this moment" attitude because everything that you carry with you is heavy and constantly carrying heavy stuff is bad. So the Orions like to get rid of things and like to get rid of a lot of things and when they get rid of things, I mean they sell things if they can't recycle it. That's how they became merchants; They sold the stuff that they didn't need. And, since they were nomadic, they soon learned that if Place A sold something for 10 credits and Place B was buying that same thing for 20 credits, they could turn a profit. They learned this trick really, really fast and then learned it really, really well.
Now, you're asking yourself, "But they're in the Triangle! That's their thing, being in the Triangle..." Well, yes, they are technically in the Triangle but they sort of "rent" it out. Because, as you know, the first rule of a good store is location, location, location. And the triangle is the best location in the known galaxy because it intersects all 3 of the major powers (Let's not talk about Orion-Gorn relations because the Gorn just aren't very good customers...)
The Orions are not perfect, though. None of the powers are perfect, Feds included, also including the Vulcans and the Orions' skeleton in their closet is that they privately don't respect the other powers because those other powers are all planet-based. They aren't nomads. How stupid of them! Sure, they all have spaceships but those space ships all go to other planets and dock on other planets and such. Their governments are planet based and the corporations are planet based and... To them, starships are just things they use to hope to other planets. They aren't ship-based, like the Orions.
The Orions reserve a special level of spite for other Orions who do enjoy being on planets rather than ships. You are not considered a "real" Orion if you enjoy being on a planet. Turn in your Orion badge now and never speak of this again. That's the attitude. And of those planets that the Orions do possess? well, it's a necessary evil in order to deal with the planet lovers.
You may be asking yourself, "Why don't the Klingons or whomever wipe out the Orions, then? In the Law of the Jungle, what's preventing the Orions from being stomped on if they don't have turf?" well, the answer to that is when you look at an Orion caravan. It's massive. It's HUGE! Even small caravans are hundreds of spaceships large. Remember that this is an entire civilization living on starships. They know their starships. the large, main caravans number in the tens of thousands of spaceships.
So, go ahead... Try confronting an Orion caravan with, I don't know, 30 battleships and see how quickly that lasts. Sure, you're going to destroy a certain number of Orion ships and then the sheer size and weight of that caravan is going to crush those battleships like a bug! And then that caravan will talk to other Orion caravans and the main caravans (with their umpteen thousands of ships) will smack their fist into their other open hand and open up a huge can of whoop-ass on the first target that it sees... And it will be painful. There is safety in numbers and the Orions know that lesson, too.
So, that's the Orions. They are the "clouds in the sky" of the whole Star Trek universe. They are there, everyone has learned to tolerate them (because, let's face it, you try telling a 2,000 fleet caravan that they can't do something) and, as long as you're polite to them, they'll sell you stuff at a special rate because they like you. Really. They do. Honest.
More later. Comments are always welcome. Thanks.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 9, 2020 14:30:12 GMT -7
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 9, 2020 16:17:54 GMT -7
Since I'm writing more about lore than timeline, I should point out something significant in my universe: How the cloaking device works. Because, at various points in the timeline, both the Feds (and Vulcans, by extension) along with the Klingons and even the Orions and Gorn get their grubby little paws on this thing without the Romulans knowing about it, as paranoid as they are.
And they can't get it to work to save their lives. Or it malfunctions. Horribly. And this is where the rumor starts spreading of how horrible & unreliable the cloaking device works and how deadly it probably is for the Romulan crews to use it. And, of course, that can't be further from the truth.
I fashioned the cloaking device in the same manner as Greek Fire: It's a system and you need the entire system for it to work. Technically, we modern humans don't know the exact formula for Greek Fire but we do know that it was a 'system' as much as just the actual formula for the substance 'Greek Fire.' Same with the Cloaking Device: the actual 'cloaking device' is just one part of the system. You need the rest of the system for it to work. Everyone else doesn't realize that and that's why they get the crappy results that they get. When the Romulans build a ship with a cloaking device, they build the entire ship with the intention of having a specific cloaking device for that ship. That ship needs particular warp drives and particular computers and a particular cloaking device all for it to work for that one ship. If I have to replace the warp drives on that Romulan ship, I can replace them with any old Romulan warp drive but then I lose the cloaking capability. See? Everything is particular to that one ship. The disruptor beam? Sure, I can replace that but then I lose firing the disruptor beam while cloaked because I can't do that anymore.
So that's why no one can figure out the cloaking device for the longest time and most just plain give up on it, thinking that the Romulans are crazy for flying around with the thing in the first place: They don't realize that they've only stolen one tiny part of the system and not the entire thing.
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steve
Commander
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Post by steve on Jun 10, 2020 15:05:24 GMT -7
My alternate universe always had an audience of only one: Myself. Therefore, I never really needed to write anything down "in stone" or to do so in detail. If anything, my alternate universe was developed at only two levels: In very broad strokes and at tiny, granular details. I never needed to nail down anything in the middle because I was always adjusting things in those levels. As my mind changed, so did those levels.
One of the tiny, granular details was about the Vulcans. In my timeline, mirrors were very symbolic for the Vulcans. In fact, when the Vulcans were persecuted by the Romulans, the Vulcans needed to find a way of finding out who was who and whom to trust. Mirrors did that part; If you hung a mirror where you could see it upon first entering a house, you were one of them. If not...
And why mirrors? Well, it had to do with the basic principle of being a Vulcan. See, Vulcans sought out and obeyed the truth, as ugly as the truth might be. A mirror tells someone what they exactly look like. A mirror doesn't 'lie' and, barring funhouse mirrors of course, they always told the truth. Mirrors were also used for telescopes, another message of seeking out knowledge.
Anyway, an absolutely useless piece of trivia about the alternate universe. More later. Comments are always welcome.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 15, 2020 15:56:59 GMT -7
steveWith your Orions being nomadic, do you still use the three subspecies from the original FASA background, ie Ruddy, Green and Gray spieces?
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 16, 2020 14:03:14 GMT -7
Hi trynda1701. I know that I haven't been here for a few days. I didn't want to "burn out" and be on every single day. Also, Real Life(tm) always seems to get in the way when you least expect (or want) it to.
At any rate, as I wrote earlier, my alternate universe was for one person: Me. Therefore, I tended to develop it on two levels: In a real, broad general sense and little nitpicky details that seemed to amuse me at the time.
I can't specifically remember doing anything with the individual species; I was more attuned to the "these guys really don't have any planets to speak of and live entirely on spaceships." I remember trying to fold over some of the Ferengi into them and make them very unforgivingly capitalist without them becoming obnoxious about it (like the Ferengi). I know that, at one point, I tried folding over a lot of stuff from the Borg into the Gorn but then decided that I wanted to reserve the Borg for something special, so I just left the Gorn as being this sort of "simplistic biological version of the Borg" instead.
As my alternate universe was Romulan-oriented, I never felt the need to get granular or specific with the Orion beyond the general characteristics previously described, HOWEVER...
Something that I tried to do with each group (Feds, Romulans, Klingons, etc.) was to try to give each of them a Big Secret. In stories, adding a little bit of mystery goes a long way of keeping readers interested and also allows for greater plot potential. For instance, with the Gorn, you never really knew who the master race was that initially enslaved the Gorn. You knew that the Gorn were once a slave race and that was it and the Gorn were very tight-lipped (even to the Romulans, who were on great terms with them) about it.
The Big Secret with the Orion is that they never described their history too well to others or what other civilizations that they had encountered prior to meeting the Feds / Romulans / Klingons. I made this their Big Secret because I didn't know what to do with the Orion if I wanted to "end" the story. Without going into too much detail, I always reserved The Borg for something special; They were going to be The Big Villain that forces the Feds / Romulans / Klingons/ Gorn to unite and settle their differences once and for all. Were the Orion unwitting partners to The Bog, constantly leading The Borg to new civilizations or was it a symbiotic relationship where the Orion "depended" upon The Borg... Or would the Orion be threatened by the Borg along with everyone else?
I never really thought about "the Borg Ending" in huge detail because I liked having all of the major powers at a constant stalemate. I do know that one outcome would be that, after the major powers unite and defeat The Borg, that they (Feds, Roms, Klings, Orion, Gorn) would form the first "United Federation of Planets" and a new era called "The Great Thaw" would occur, with even the Romulans and Vulcans on frigid but cordial speaking terms.
In terms of Orion species, there's certainly room for that and more. The ships in the largest caravans number in the tens of thousands and, over time, the Orions in certain caravans can develop certain physical traits.
Anyway, comments always welcome. Thanks for reading. More later.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 17, 2020 9:51:24 GMT -7
Hi trynda1701. I know that I haven't been here for a few days. I didn't want to "burn out" and be on every single day. Also, Real Life(tm) always seems to get in the way when you least expect (or want) it to. No problem, as you say, real life can get in the way of our hobbies. And I couldn't criticise anyway. Don't look at my miniatures thread, where there a few gaps of a year or more between each Empires minis!
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steve
Commander
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Post by steve on Jun 17, 2020 12:45:34 GMT -7
Up until now, I haven't written much about the Vulcans. I've always considered them the unofficial "sixth" group in my alternate universe.
One of the things about the Vulcans is that I eliminated a lot of the obvious "magic" that they possessed (Vulcan Mind Meld, the nerve pinch, etc.) but kept the stoic, no emotions, facts only persona that they strived for. After all, a lot of the "magic" that they could do could also be achieved through observation. For instance, con artists & card sharks are renowned for picking up subtle facial cues that indicate what a person is thinking, almost knowing what a person knows with "magic." I just never liked the "magic" aspect and wanted them to be more grounded with reality (yeah... Reality... In a sci-fi fictional world...).
One of the the things that I tried to imbue with the Vulcans was this sense that, everyone else thought that they were united but, in reality, there was a huge intra-culture struggle to define just what a "vulcan" was and, as a result, several sects emerge that are all vying to be "more Vulcan" than the other sects. It was a little bit like with the Japanese at the time (when I was growing up, Japanese companies was taking over EVERYTHING and there was a real palpable "fear" that we'd all have to learn Japanese and bow to our Japanese Overlords... Yes, that's as stupid as it reads but I was there when it was happening and the adults at the time were sweating bullets over it) in that everyone thought that they were 'united' but, really, there was all of this struggle and conflict behind the scenes that no one else can see.
I kept the "Vulcans have pointier ears than Romulans" but never really dwelt upon it because it was like any other physical quirk: If you isolate a bunch of people and they all inter-breed with each other, you're going to get physical differences. Skin color, hair color (such as redheads), etc. so forth. I never dealt with Spock and the whole 'half-Vulcan' thing because I enjoyed the alternate universe at a macro-level but made sure that he fit in at some level.
One thing that I remember was that, wouldn't it be funny if there were more Romulan-Humans than there were Vulcan-humans even though Vulcans were inside of Federation space as a result of Romulans being a bit more care-free than the ultra-intellectual Vulcans.
I know that one of the sects of the Vulcans sort of broke off from the rest, basically saying, "F this!" and starting their own mini-empire somewhere outside of Fed space, far away from the Romulans. I never did that much with that aspect of the universe but always kept it as a potential plot point to be used if I wanted it. I think that there were even "Vulcans" inside of the Romulan Empire (those that never left) and the whole "What truly is a 'Vulcan'?" was just a tasty little sub-plot thingy that I had but never really got around to utilizing to any significant degree.
Comments always welcome. More later. Thanks for reading.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 17, 2020 16:12:46 GMT -7
Interesting point about the 'magic' of Vulcans. Although I would say that you could have perhaps kept the nerve pinch. Leonard Nimoy said behind the scenes that Vulcans knew human anatomy, AND had some mystical energy to perform the neckpinch. But there is the fact that there is an episode where Kirk says to Spock "I wish you could teach me that" to which Spock replies "I have tried, Captain"! I think it is "The Omega Glory"?
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 20, 2020 2:37:49 GMT -7
One of the things that I tried to do with my universe was have a side hate another side the most. For instance, Romulans REALLY dislike the Federation because they're protecting one of their enemies (the Vulcans). However, the Romulans are on great terms with the Gorn.
With the Gorn, the surprising side that they hate are... the Vulcans. The Gorn just never liked the Vulcans and, by extension, are fairly cool to the Federation by extension. Heck, the Gorn like the Klingons (who actively enslave each other) more than the Vulcans. Why is this? While I never wrote a definitive answer, the one that I liked the most is that it gives a clue as to who the master race was who enslaved the Gorn.
The Orions didn't hate anyone but disliked the Gorn the most simply because they weren't good customers. The Gorn aren't in the habit of discretionary spending; Heck, even the Vulcans will use the Orions on occasion when it is "logical."
I think that I preserved the Fed/Klingon hate with each other. I'm not sure if I had the Vulcans "hate" anyone (the whole "no emotion" thingy) but, surprisingly, I think it was the Klingons who were most "illogical." Surprisingly, they're not certain why the Gorn dislike them so much but they deduce that it has something to do with the fact that the Vulcans remind them of the Gorn's prior master race. Interestingly, just the presence of the Gorn makes some of the Vulcans doubt themselves over their "no emotion, logic only" mantra because, in a way, the Gorn emulate that on a certain level and the Vulcans look at it and go, "Yeeeaaaa...No. Just no." And it puts more of that "What is a Vulcan?" sub-plot into play because other Vulcans look at the Gorn and go, "I would not mind getting a piece of THAT action...!"
Anyway, comments always welcome. More later. Thanks for reading.
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 20, 2020 16:57:35 GMT -7
Of all of the "six" (counting the Vulcans) factions in my alt universe, the Klingons were the least developed. I felt as though that I never really needed to do a lot with the Klingons. I've described them vaguely before but I may as well lay out as much as I can remember here.
In brief, the Klingons are bunch of clans / houses / families / nations / whatever all fighting amongst each other constantly. They really are the personification of "might makes right." I know that, the big thing about the Klingons is that they still had slavery but it was qualified slavery. You'd think, "Whoa! The Gorn were a former slave race! Why do the Gorn hate the Vulcans more than the Klingons if the Klingons still own SLAVES?!!" Well, it's the fact that Klingons only enslave their own people and not other people. For them, slavery is all about proving you're more alpha dog than everyone else. There's no point in enslaving a bunch of Romulans or Federation people; What's that going to prove to another Klingon? But if you enslave other Klingons... That's power. That's control.
I tried to imbue a philosophy of "Honorable Slavery" (there is no such thing in real life, obviously, let's not even go there but these are, after all, Klingons) whereby their entire society was loosely constructed around who it was who was 'king of the hill' at the moment. Therefore, the slavery was meant as a way of showing that, somewhere down the line, you were weak and I was strong and now I'm showing how weak you were by enslaving you and, by enslaving you, showing others not to be weak like you, thereby, preventing others from potentially being enslaved... If that makes sense.
Beyond the slavery thing with the Klingons, I didn't really remember making specific clans or anything like that. It wasn't as though one clan believed in "this" and another clan believed in "that."
I remember that the Klingons secretly hated the Romulans because they didn't fight "fair." Even though the Klingons eventually lose to both the Romulans and the Feds, they admire the Feds more (not by a lot, admittedly) because the Feds fought "fair." the Klingons find the Orions annoying but know that it's futile to deal with them on a military level. I think that it was the Klingons who keep trying to use the Orions as a way to antagonize the Feds & Romulans; You'd think it would be the wily Romulans trying to manipulate the Orions but the Romulans are too paranoid of everyone (Orions included) to invest in manipulating them. The Klingons just don't like The Vulcans and, on this subject, the Klingons & Romulans share a bit of common ground but not for the same reason. The Vulcans simply irritate the Klingons because the Vulcans are pure intellectuals; They may be 'right' but there's no 'might' to enforce their 'right.' As previously mentioned, The Romulans hate the Vulcans because, well, see the above explanation a few posts up. However, with the Klingons, there's almost a love/hate relationship there with the Vulcans because the Klingons constantly want to prove, to themselves and to others, that "the person who punches hardest is the most right." they want to prove that their philosophy and way of life is superior and the Vulcans are more than willing to prove them wrong whenever the need arises, much to the Klingons' consternation. In a very roundabout way, this whole "we're going to debate you until you accept that our wrong opinion is right because we can punch harder than you" mentality by the Klingons actually helps soften their civilization up a bit because, for once, they can't punch harder but, of course, it only makes the Klingons deadlier foes: the Romulans have proven that guile works and the Feds/Vulcans prove that, on occasion, you have to put the sledgehammer down and pick up the test tube.
Which makes the Klingon attempt at taking over known space after the failed first War with the Feds all the more brazen and it nearly worked... But that's for another time...
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Post by brickwall on Jun 20, 2020 17:45:03 GMT -7
Of all of the "six" (counting the Vulcans) factions in my alt universe, the Klingons were the least developed. I felt as though that I never really needed to do a lot with the Klingons. I've described them vaguely before but I may as well lay out as much as I can remember here. In brief, the Klingons are bunch of clans / houses / families / nations / whatever all fighting among each other constantly. They really are the personification of "might makes right." I know that, the big thing about the Klingons is that they still had slavery but it was qualified slavery. You'd think, "Whoa! The Gorn were a former slave race! Why do the Gorn hate the Vulcans more than the Klingons if the Klingons still own SLAVES?!!" Well, it's the fact that Klingons only enslave their own people and not other people. For them, slavery is all about proving you're more alpha dog than everyone else. There's no point in enslaving a bunch of Romulans or Federation people; What's that going to prove to another Klingon? But if you enslave other Klingons... That's power. That's control. I tried to imbue a philosophy of "Honorable Slavery" (there is no such thing in real life, obviously, let's not even go there but these are, after all, Klingons) whereby their entire society was loosely constructed around who it was who was 'king of the hill' at the moment. Therefore, the slavery was meant as a way of showing that, somewhere down the line, you were weak and I was strong and now I'm showing how weak you were by enslaving you and, by enslaving you, showing others not to be weak like you, thereby, preventing others from potentially being enslaved... If that makes sense. Beyond the slavery thing with the Klingons, I didn't really remember making specific clans or anything like that. It wasn't as though one clan believed in "this" and another clan believed in "that." I remember that the Klingons secretly hated the Romulans because they didn't fight "fair." Even though the Klingons eventually lose to both the Romulans and the Feds, they admire the Feds more (not by a lot, admittedly) because the Feds fought "fair." the Klingons find the Orions annoying but know that it's futile to deal with them on a military level. I think that it was the Klingons who keep trying to use the Orions as a way to antagonize the Feds & Romulans; You'd think it would be the wily Romulans trying to manipulate the Orions but the Romulans are too paranoid of everyone (Orions included) to invest in manipulating them. The Klingons just don't like The Vulcans and, on this subject, the Klingons & Romulans share a bit of common ground but not for the same reason. The Vulcans simply irritate the Klingons because the Vulcans are pure intellectuals; They may be 'right' but there's no 'might' to enforce their 'right.' As previously mentioned, The Romulans hate the Vulcans because, well, see the above explanation a few posts up. However, with the Klingons, there's almost a love/hate relationship there with the Vulcans because the Klingons constantly want to prove, to themselves and to others, that "the person who punches hardest is the most right." they want to prove that their philosophy and way of life is superior and the Vulcans are more than willing to prove them wrong whenever the need arises, much to the Klingons' consternation. In a very roundabout way, this whole "we're going to debate you until you accept that our wrong opinion is right because we can punch harder than you" mentality by the Klingons actually helps soften their civilization up a bit because, for once, they can't punch harder but, of course, it only makes the Klingons deadlier foes: the Romulans have proven that guile works and the Feds/Vulcans prove that, on occasion, you have to put the sledgehammer down and pick up the test tube. Which makes the Klingon attempt at taking over known space after the failed first War with the Feds all the more brazen and it nearly worked... But that's for another time... Hmmmm.......
Seems similar to the tribes of Gaul during the time Julius Caesar began his invasion two millennia ago. The tribes were constantly fighting each other as well as the Germanic barbarians trying to push them around. Or even the British tribes when Caesar did his first invasion of England.
Very interesting comparison. I look forward to your expansion of this version of Trek.
And please forgive my nudge-nudge, but I'd appreciate your view of the Kephan Unity so far. There is always need for improvement and I'd like to know your perspective. Many thanks in advance.
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steve
Commander
Posts: 537
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Post by steve on Jun 21, 2020 4:30:49 GMT -7
Hmmmm.......
Seems similar to the tribes of Gaul during the time Julius Caesar began his invasion two millennia ago. The tribes were constantly fighting each other as well as the Germanic barbarians trying to push them around. Or even the British tribes when Caesar did his first invasion of England.
Very interesting comparison. I look forward to your expansion of this version of Trek.
And please forgive my nudge-nudge, but I'd appreciate your view of the Kephan Unity so far. There is always need for improvement and I'd like to know your perspective. Many thanks in advance. Having read your thread, it seemed very detailed. Your worldbuilding is thorough. I will try to be as constructive as possible with my views: 1). WHAT, exactly, is the philosophy of the Kephan Unity? It may be clear in your thoughts but not necessarily that of your readers. In your first post, you should state an overview of what, exactly, the Kephan Unity is. I gleaned that they are libertarian in nature (based upon their anti-UN stance). Are they? Every civilization is complex but they can also be somewhat simplified: Vulcans are intellectuals; The Federation is Democratic; The Klingons violent & war-like; Romulans are conniving and cunning, etc. 2). As the saying goes, if you want people to like you, be likeable. In my own alternate universe, I strove to make sure that each civilization had a REASON for doing what they did. The Romulans, for instance, are known for cunning and guile. However, according to them, they are as such because their people have been attacked so often that they feel this is the only way to protect themselves (first from the Hunnarians, then from the Vulcans, then from the Klingons). Even the Klingons (who are probably the closest for being the "black hat" of the civilizations), in my alt universe, have the philosophy of, "What's the point of being right if someone wrong is stronger than you and can kill you? That's why might makes right!" Whether or not you meant it, you present the Kephan as oppositional. For instance... *** Unlike the rest of it's neighbors, however, it harbored one long-term goal for the Star Navy - "to liberate Occupied Earth from it's Globalist seducers and enslavers" *** But tell us how you really feel? (Or, as one of my political science professors liked to sometimes say, "But besides that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?") A lot of readers are going to come in liking the Federation and thinking that they're an OK group of guys. So, explain to the readers what the Kephan perspective is as to what the Federation has done to deserve this critique. I think that would go a long way in helping out this civilization. 3). Gilbert Keith Chesterton is a real person, according to the Internet Gods. However, it's unclear how exactly he fits into the Kephan Unity's worldviews. From my uneducated perspective, he is a... Christian philosopher? There wasn't a good read as to whether he was libertarian or capitalist or objectivist... Perhaps you could clarify what his views were that co-founded the Kephan Unity. 4). I have no problem with the Kephan Unity symbol. If you have not done so already, invest some time in vexillology (the study of flags). An all- or mostly-white flag might be misconstrued as a sign of surrender in the heat of combat. Even the American Confederacy altered their national flag (a mostly white flag) late in the civil war (the battle standard, "Stars & Bars," was not their national flag but a battle flag) to have a red stripe at the end to avoid such misunderstandings. Although some flags do not have one, consider having something in the canton of the flag so that when the flag is not flying in the wind, the flag can still be visibly identified as Kephan. Also, I'm sure that it hasn't escaped the more humorous that someone is eventually going to parody the flag by replacing the upwards index finger with the middle finger instead. Fair warning. Or, even more rudely, elongating the upper circle into an oval and shrinking the bottom circles to make a rather... Unfortunately inappropriate shape. I'm sure the Federation opponents have already thought of that one. In the end, it's always nice to read about another civilization. You've certainly put in considerable effort with detail on starship classes. I look forward to more entries. Thank you.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jun 21, 2020 11:16:35 GMT -7
steveInteresting take on the Klingons. I know in the John Ford novel "The Final Reflection", they had servitors, including Vulcans who had been subjected to surgery so their telepathic powers were inhibited. By the way, do your Klingons only look like the TV Klingons, or do the ridged variety appear as well?
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