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Post by trynda1701 on Jul 28, 2020 14:58:21 GMT -7
I downloaded this spreadsheet a few months back to see how it works. I understand the basic concept ("if I could just have two more power points, or stay Class VII at 2/1 movement"). I believe it's an update by ufc465537 of the original Lee Wood spreadsheet for his Chartless Construction System? This week, I was inputting one of my Orion Assassin raiders to try it out, and am having a couple of problems. Perhaps ufc465537 will see this and comment on the matter. I understand that as there are three slightly different weapons WDF formulae reverse-engineered over the years, and that this sheet averages the three, my WDF total might be slightly higher, no problem with that. While it only allows you to input weapons with the single weapon superstructure value, not the slight weight saving from a banked weapon, again no problem, as tonnage class limits don't have to be adhered to now. But it seems that instead of being slightly heavier than I expected, my design is lighter! That's ok as well, might just be an arithmetical error in my part when I created it by hand.  But for some reason, the spreadsheet isn't working out the D factor, based on the WER, IER, SER, DPC and SS figures from the Construction Manual. The yellow calculation boxes just say '#N/A'. Plus, although I use the drop down menus for the movement ratio and shield point ratio, when you look at the Final sheet, instead of seeing 2/1 or 1/3, I'm seeing '43862' or '43833'! Can anyone else who has used this spreadsheet tell me if this version I downloaded from this post here by ufc465537... ststcsolda.proboards.com/post/8010/thread...is the one they've downloaded, and if it works for them? Now it might just be that my problems might stem from the fact that my only internet access is via my Amazon Fire Tablet, as both my Apple and PC laptops are no more. I'm wondering if someone like thescreamingswede or Meteo Ascension might have used this sheet for their designs for races other than the original FASA races, like the Valhallen Stellar Concordat by thescreamingswede or Meteo Ascension Nausican, Lyran etc designs? Can anyone who has used this tell me either... A) Is it just me doing something wrong? B) Is it because it's on my Fire Tablet? C) There is a problem with this version of the spreadsheet? I look forward to hearing any thoughts from any forum members on the matter.  |
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Post by steven on Jul 28, 2020 18:21:05 GMT -7
I haven't used the spreadsheet or the construction manual. When I designed my hospital ship I basically just assigned values with the only math being figuring out the defense values. But then again I was just throwing together for flavor and not to min/max the design.
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Post by ufc465537 on Jul 28, 2020 21:31:26 GMT -7
Oh wow. That post was 5 years ago, it may have had a bug or 2. I'll check my master copy for these issues. Ill post an update soon.
Thanks!
Edit: oh wait I just remembered my laptop has no hard drive lol. When I get that taken care of, I will check those formats and references. And you may wanna try it on a PC (somewhere if you can borrow a laptop or desktop somewhere) and see if its the Fire tablet thats the issue.
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Post by ufc465537 on Jul 29, 2020 1:11:32 GMT -7
I downloaded a copy to my phone and found a mistake in the power efficiency calculation.
In cell L24 of the FORM pages the formula reads "=1/LOOKUP(D24..." but it should read "=LOOKUP(D24..."
That directly affects the D and CE calculations. I checked it against the Constitution class Mks I and II and numbers are close enough, with rounding issues to one decimal place.
The numbers instead of the ratios maybe just a cell format issue. It didnt happen on the copy I looked at, but if you change the cell format to "text" that might alleviate that problem.
The "#N/A" will appear when theres an error in calculation. Once you start filling in numbers that should change. For the forms your not using, just manually change the font color to white.
I'll upload a corrected copy to my website and Morena Shipyard once my laptop is up and running. Ill continue to look for other discrepancies.
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Post by trynda1701 on Jul 29, 2020 12:20:03 GMT -7
I downloaded a copy to my phone and found a mistake in the power efficiency calculation. In cell L24 of the FORM pages the formula reads "=1/LOOKUP(D24..." but it should read "=LOOKUP(D24..." That directly affects the D and CE calculations. I checked it against the Constitution class Mks I and II and numbers are close enough, with rounding issues to one decimal place. The numbers instead of the ratios maybe just a cell format issue. It didnt happen on the copy I looked at, but if you change the cell format to "text" that might alleviate that problem. The "#N/A" will appear when theres an error in calculation. Once you start filling in numbers that should change. For the forms your not using, just manually change the font color to white. I'll upload a corrected copy to my website and Morena Shipyard once my laptop is up and running. Ill continue to look for other discrepancies. I normally don't like to try inputting lots of stuff via my phone, but tried to use the spreadsheet on my phone. It did download, but I can't open the file! The phone's old, it's not its fault! Anyway, I tried your corrections on my Fire Tablet. The D figures still aren't being shown on the Final page, the "#N/A" are still showing. I changed the format of the movement cell to "text" (it was set at "date"). When I did this, the 2/1 on Form 1 changed to the 4nnnnn number, and still showed on the Final page. Changed it back to 2/1 using the drop down menu, but still no change from the 4nnnnn number on Final! Might be able to try the spreadsheet by getting it onto my late Dads' old iBook, IF I can find a charger for it! Thanks for trying to get this to work by the way. I understand the basics of how spreadsheets work, and appreciate all the hard work you must have went to originally to input all the cells/formulae |
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Post by ufc465537 on Jul 30, 2020 18:23:23 GMT -7
Hm. Ok, now im even more intrigued ( cuz everyone loves a good mystery). What program are you using to view the spreadsheet?
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Post by trynda1701 on Jul 31, 2020 3:53:01 GMT -7
Hm. Ok, now im even more intrigued ( cuz everyone loves a good mystery). What program are you using to view the spreadsheet? MobiSystems OfficeSuite Free. EDIT: I also just tried 'WPS Office for Amazon', still the same problem!  That's both on my Fire Tablet. |
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Post by bazbaziah on Jul 31, 2020 8:26:22 GMT -7
I've just downloaded the sheet from the link you used and entered the same data into all three of the data tabs and its all woking just fine with version of Excel 365 on my laptop. The format of the movement cells should be set to date so change them back?
L24 should not have the 1/ after the = sign
I can email you the working copy I have if you PM me your address?
Jim
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Post by trynda1701 on Jul 31, 2020 13:44:03 GMT -7
PM sent, Jim.
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 6, 2020 16:56:23 GMT -7
Jim Received that copy of the chartless system, but still having the same problems. Tried just inputting the data from scratch, but the D figure and the movement ratio and shield ratio problems persist. Maybe it's the Fire Tablet after all?  Mark |
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Post by bazbaziah on Aug 7, 2020 8:44:14 GMT -7
Jim Received that copy of the chartless system, but still having the same problems. Tried just inputting the data from scratch, but the D figure and the movement ratio and shield ratio problems persist. Maybe it's the Fire Tablet after all? Mark Hey, It is most likely a compatability issue to do with the formatting of the cells and the way the fire tablet is interpreting them. I will have a look at it over he weekend and see if I can rework the formulas to a more standard method of displaying the values. Jim |
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Post by bazbaziah on Aug 7, 2020 8:44:47 GMT -7
Jim Received that copy of the chartless system, but still having the same problems. Tried just inputting the data from scratch, but the D figure and the movement ratio and shield ratio problems persist. Maybe it's the Fire Tablet after all? Mark Hey, It is most likely a compatability issue to do with the formatting of the cells and the way the fire tablet is interpreting them. I will have a look at it over he weekend and see if I can rework the formulas to a more standard method of displaying the values. Jim |
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 7, 2020 8:49:37 GMT -7
Jim Received that copy of the chartless system, but still having the same problems. Tried just inputting the data from scratch, but the D figure and the movement ratio and shield ratio problems persist. Maybe it's the Fire Tablet after all? Mark Hey, It is most likely a compatability issue to do with the formatting of the cells and the way the fire tablet is interpreting them. I will have a look at it over he weekend and see if I can rework the formulas to a more standard method of displaying the values. Jim Ok doke. Thanks for trying that for me! |
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Post by Meteo Ascension on Aug 13, 2020 20:26:29 GMT -7
I almost never used it. I made all-new systems for the SFB races, and systems for some of the races from the STCS Design Consortium led by Bryan Jecko.
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Post by ufc465537 on Aug 15, 2020 7:42:11 GMT -7
I almost never used it. I made all-new systems for the SFB races, and systems for some of the races from the STCS Design Consortium led by Bryan Jecko. We know. The spreadsheet's a useful tool to fill in the gaps left by the charts and to give a little freedom without having to create an entire chart set for a race that may be encountered infrequently or just once. It was always a limitation for me when trying to create an adventure highlighting a new race and inserting a ship encounter with no method of creating stats except for rearranging numbers from existing charts from other races, trying to make up something- the other option being creating new charts. It also comes in handy when you're dealing with alternate genres and timelines and - oh yeah- canon, all of which frequently distort a ships' size, speed, denfenses and weapon strength. For example, we have 3 canon versions of the Connie, each with its own specifications. Im not updating all the charts everytime a new creative team takes a hand at Star Trek. Charts are nice for the sake of standardization (as long as theres a consensus, I guess), but for out of standard occassions- Id just use the spreadsheet. |
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 15, 2020 10:35:53 GMT -7
I almost never used it. I made all-new systems for the SFB races, and systems for some of the races from the STCS Design Consortium led by Bryan Jecko. I see, gotcha Meteo Ascension |
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 15, 2020 10:37:19 GMT -7
bazbaziahJust sent you a PM, tried your suggestions, still no change!
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Post by bazbaziah on Aug 17, 2020 12:02:01 GMT -7
Hey,
I've knocked this sheet around so many ways on my computer to simulate this fault and just can't get it to do it for me.
What I have learned though is the way it calculates WDF, WER, IER and SER out are really complex compared to the easy way of doing them!!
I finally found someone here that has a fire tablet and I loaded the sheet into it using the same software you have and the problem pops up? I can only assume then its the fire causing the problem.
Jim
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 17, 2020 15:07:40 GMT -7
Hey, I've knocked this sheet around so many ways on my computer to simulate this fault and just can't get it to do it for me. What I have learned though is the way it calculates WDF, WER, IER and SER out are really complex compared to the easy way of doing them!! I finally found someone here that has a fire tablet and I loaded the sheet into it using the same software you have and the problem pops up? I can only assume then its the fire causing the problem. Jim Ah well then, can't be helped. Thanks for trying to help me out with this, Jim. Much appreciated. I still haven't been able to find my Dads' old iBook charger. If I do, I'll let you know how I get on. Mark |
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 21, 2020 11:59:52 GMT -7
Hey, I've knocked this sheet around so many ways on my computer to simulate this fault and just can't get it to do it for me. What I have learned though is the way it calculates WDF, WER, IER and SER out are really complex compared to the easy way of doing them!! I finally found someone here that has a fire tablet and I loaded the sheet into it using the same software you have and the problem pops up? I can only assume then its the fire causing the problem. Jim Ah well then, can't be helped. Thanks for trying to help me out with this, Jim. Much appreciated. I still haven't been able to find my Dads' old iBook charger. If I do, I'll let you know how I get on. Mark Well, I found the old iBook charger, but no luck. The only office software on it was an old copy of Appleworks office package, and the spreadsheet won't let me open the drop down menus for MPR and SPR, so I can't test whether the Chartless Construction V2.0 spreadsheet works! Plus the browser is so out of date (Safari and Firefox) that I can't actually connect to the internet to download a open source office package like NeoOffice or OpenOffice, or variants thereof! Anyone on the forum using an old PowerPC Mac using TenFourFox, the open source version of Firefox for old PowerPC Macs? If I could get a copy of the latest download zip file, I could try the old iBook with that! |
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 21, 2020 17:28:57 GMT -7
In addition to the above post about TenFourFox, meant to say it won't download into my Fire Tablet or Android phone. So if anyone here on the forum uses, or knows someone who uses an old PowerPC Mac, who could get me a copy of the zip file that we could try to get to me via PM and email, it would be GREATLY appreciated! |
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Post by bazbaziah on Aug 22, 2020 5:48:38 GMT -7
You should be able to ignore the drop down and type directly into the cell. So. Long as what you type is the same as the content of the drop down it should work. I can't remember if the cells in question validate the input or not? If you want I can remove the drop downs and send you a saved copy of that?
Jim
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 22, 2020 5:54:26 GMT -7
You should be able to ignore the drop down and type directly into the cell. So. Long as what you type is the same as the content of the drop down it should work. I can't remember if the cells in question validate the input or not? If you want I can remove the drop downs and send you a saved copy of that? Jim I think I tried to just input it, but it didn't seem to work. Admittedly it was at the end of a lot of frustration trying to find some way to get a TenFourFox download, being ultimately unsuccessful. If you could send a copy without the menus, that would be much appreciated! Mark |
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Post by Meteo Ascension on Aug 22, 2020 12:21:11 GMT -7
Ha ha, the 1000th Mile for you, Trynda!
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Post by trynda1701 on Aug 22, 2020 13:46:08 GMT -7
Ha ha, the 1000th Mile for you, Trynda! That's what I get for being a Mac user! |
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That's both on my Fire Tablet.
